Is emotion and intensity the biggest problem.

Yes I think they could do better but I think the lack of skill is biggest. Does Pavel Daytsuk show a huge amount or emotion or does he rely on his skill to pull him through. He has a solid focus to execute and then allows his skill set to do that.

I think Emotion and intensity help when you don't have your skill working on some nights and that may be able to pull you through. I would prefer a lineup with more skill and speed.
- J35Bacher

Emotion and intensity is what raises a team. A skilled team without is going to be a lesser team. Just as a lesser skilled team is going to be a lesser team without it.
I'd prefer the team to add skill and spead. But I'd also prefer to add more intensity and emotion on a regular basis. They can do that without adding a single player.

I smell a trade coming today...

And it stinks.
- Streit2ThePoint

I don't think so...not on a game day.

I think.

If Edmonton called and offered that, we'd be fighting on who gets to drive Luke to the airport.
- ob18

I'm dangerous and I fight dirty -- just sayin'

No
- MJL

I figured.. I have watched about 6.

They are a brutal team to watch. They dont compete, they dont work hard, they dont skate hard, they dont want it....


Except thats not true. Those guys are busting their butts. They are extremely frustrated. They struggle to even stay remotely in a game. I saw back to back 6-1 losses a couple weeks ago. It was bad... but not because they dont work hard. They lack skill in a lot of places.

The Flyers really are not too different. Take away Jake and G and the Flyers are pretttty much the Sabres.

I think it's time to demote Read and try Raffl on the Couturier line with Simmonds. He has a lot more jump than Read this season.
- Feanor

That's what I'd do -- need to break that up to get a better feel for what the hell the problem is

I figured.. I have watched about 6.

They are a brutal team to watch. They dont compete, they dont work hard, they dont skate hard, they dont want it....


Except thats not true. Those guys are busting their butts. They are extremely frustrated. They struggle to even stay remotely in a game. I saw back to back 6-1 losses a couple weeks ago. It was bad... but not because they dont work hard. They lack skill in a lot of places.

The Flyers really are not too different. Take away Jake and G and the Flyers are pretttty much the Sabres.
- jak521

I figured this would be your reply. Intensity and emotion is not enough in and of itself. Still need players, and still need talent. If the Flyers play with maximum intensity and emotion, they are still going to be limited by their talent. But the current talent level would be a much better team, if they were more consistent, and had more urgency in their game and brought more intensity to the ice on a regular basis. This is a fundamental as it gets. Can't play without it.

I also disagree that the Flyers are prett much the Sabres if you take away Giroux and Voracek. Flyers have a good core group of players.

Raffl in tonight per Dave Isaac

Looks like he's with Laughton & Simmonds
- Jsaquella

Woof -- give me a slice of that!

I'm dangerous and I fight dirty -- just sayin'

- AllInForFlyers

Okay Rinaldo

I figured.. I have watched about 6.

They are a brutal team to watch. They dont compete, they dont work hard, they dont skate hard, they dont want it....


Except thats not true. Those guys are busting their butts. They are extremely frustrated. They struggle to even stay remotely in a game. I saw back to back 6-1 losses a couple weeks ago. It was bad... but not because they dont work hard. They lack skill in a lot of places.

The Flyers really are not too different. Take away Jake and G and the Flyers are pretttty much the Sabres.
- jak521

This is where I disagree somewhat. I think even without Jake and G, the Flyers are still more skilled than Buffalo. Except for maybe Ennis and Moulson, maybe...I still think Simmer, Schenn, Coots, Laughton are better than both of them.

I agree that lack of skill frustrates a team that works hard for naught, but I think the Flyers have some skill and maybe don't work hard enough. Sometimes it is startling how little effort this team expends...until they are playing from behind, then all of the sudden its there. I would blame skill if it didn't happen all the time.

Raffl in tonight per Dave Isaac

Looks like he's with Laughton & Simmonds
- Jsaquella

Vinegar strokes

No complaints.
- Tomahawk

None from me, either -- they've been the six best all season

Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie 3m3 minutes ago
CGY puts Devin Setoguchi on waivers. WPG's T.J. Galiardi clears waivers.

Much improved.

(Swap 18 and 78 and I'd be tickled pink)
- Tomahawk

Baby steps

Vinegar strokes
- PhillySportsGuy

Thank you for this

This is where I disagree somewhat. I think even without Jake and G, the Flyers are still more skilled than Buffalo. Except for maybe Ennis and Moulson, maybe...I still think Simmer, Schenn, Coots, Laughton are better than both of them.

I agree that lack of skill frustrates a team that works hard for naught, but I think the Flyers have some skill and maybe don't work hard enough. Sometimes it is startling how little effort this team expends...until they are playing from behind, then all of the sudden its there. I would blame skill if it didn't happen all the time.
- MBFlyerfan

Exactly. They dominate the Canadiens for two periods, and then stop playing, in the 3rd. Where did the skill go? Did it ooze out of them in between periods. They were all over Minnesota, outshooting them and outchancing them, and beat one of the best possession teams at their own game. A few bad errors did them in. But the effort and intensity was there., and it made the Flyers a better team. Then there is the Rangers game, where it was obvious what was missing from the opening puck drop. Did the talent level again change form one game to the next? It's painfully obvious.

Much improved.

(Swap 18 and 78 and I'd be tickled pink)
- Tomahawk

I agree with you. Minimize the suckage. Have VL center Umberger and Rinaldo and play them 5 minutes. They could be called the Rindenburg line.

Okay Rinaldo
- ob18

In all seriousness, it's too bad about Schenn. At this stage of his career, I don't know that Press Row's gonna help him.

He's already played 450-plus NHL games...not really much he hasn't seen, and if the game hasn't slowed down for him by now, you have to question if it ever will

I figured this would be your reply. Intensity and emotion is not enough in and of itself. Still need players, and still need talent. If the Flyers play with maximum intensity and emotion, they are still going to be limited by their talent. But the current talent level would be a much better team, if they were more consistent, and had more urgency in their game and brought more intensity to the ice on a regular basis. This is a fundamental as it gets. Can't play without it.

I also disagree that the Flyers are prett much the Sabres if you take away Giroux and Voracek. Flyers have a good core group of players.
- MJL

The Flyers "good core" you speak of really isnt producing away from G and Jake and the first PP unit...

Giroux and Jake aside...

Schenn and Simmonds- 15&14 points respectively.
Simmonds has 8 of his 14 points on the first PP unit with Jake and G.

Next on the list we have Couts and Read with 8 points each. That would put them both 4th on the Sabres.. one point ahead of Gionta.

We then have 6 forwards who have played in 12 or more games and have scored less than 5 points. The sole leader of that group is Bellemare with 4 points.


We severely lack actual producing skilled players in our 7-13 forward range.

Add to that the fact that we have a plethora of depth d-men (ideally 3rd pair or reserve range) and its going to cause issues.


When you are constantly chasing the puck, constantly making physical (passing) and mental (bad reads) mistakes... you are going to get "out worked".

Out classed as well.

I actually really like playing with 7 dmen and I think it's a great way to better utilize our average depth while masking our lack of top end talent. Flyers dmen TOI last game:

Coburn-------21:14
Streit---------20:39
MacDonald---20:11
Del Zotto-----19:02
Schenn-------16:20
Grossmann---15:52
Schultz--------15:14

It lets everyone keep their minutes down.

I agree with you. Minimize the suckage. Have VL center Umberger and Rinaldo and play them 5 minutes. They could be called the Rindenburg line.
- PLindbergh31

This. Although, it would severely hurt VL's trade value moving forward. I'm already assuming Umberger is a lost cause in terms of trade value.

This. Although, it would severely hurt VL's trade value moving forward. I'm already assuming Umberger is a lost cause in terms of trade value.
- PhillySportsGuy

Sunk cost, baby -- that's why I said I'd retain 1.5 in salary to move him. That's the number you're gonna be tagged with if/when you buy him out

That should be Umberger's nickname: Sunk Cost, SC for short

I actually really like playing with 7 dmen and I think it's a great way to better utilize our average depth while masking our lack of top end talent. Flyers dmen TOI last game:

Coburn-------21:14
Streit---------20:39
MacDonald---20:11
Del Zotto-----19:02
Schenn-------16:20
Grossmann---15:52
Schultz--------15:14

It lets everyone keep their minutes down.
- JAKEw1234

I also kinda like it, expect that it means the pairs can't get used to playing with each other regularly cause they keep changing. And I think it would be especially tough for guys like Streit and MacDonald who were switching from the left side to the right side on a shift to shift basis.

This. Although, it would severely hurt VL's trade value moving forward. I'm already assuming Umberger is a lost cause in terms of trade value.
- PhillySportsGuy

So is VL.

This is where I disagree somewhat. I think even without Jake and G, the Flyers are still more skilled than Buffalo. Except for maybe Ennis and Moulson, maybe...I still think Simmer, Schenn, Coots, Laughton are better than both of them.

I agree that lack of skill frustrates a team that works hard for naught, but I think the Flyers have some skill and maybe don't work hard enough. Sometimes it is startling how little effort this team expends...until they are playing from behind, then all of the sudden its there. I would blame skill if it didn't happen all the time.
- MBFlyerfan

I wont deny that there are problems with intensity at times. There have been games where they are not getting back or working hard along the boards, but the majority of the time we have guys getting hemmed in our own end because we chase the play.

We routinely turnover pucks in our own zone. Bad passes, failed clears. That is not an effort thing. A guy cant just "put on his boots, work real hard" and all of a sudden beautiful passes start occurring.

Failed clears are just the same. It happens ALL the time. When that happens, teams take advantage, and we start chasing the play.


The Flyers "LOOK" like they are working so much harder when they possess the puck. Its a mirage. When they execute cleanly, and move the puck quickly and accurately, it cleans everything up. When we get good puck movement in the offensive zone, and cycle the puck well, the same thing happens. Its not like all of a sudden we got a burst of intensity. We just cleanly executed.

I actually really like playing with 7 dmen and I think it's a great way to better utilize our average depth while masking our lack of top end talent. Flyers dmen TOI last game:

Coburn-------21:14
Streit---------20:39
MacDonald---20:11
Del Zotto-----19:02
Schenn-------16:20
Grossmann---15:52
Schultz--------15:14

It lets everyone keep their minutes down.
- JAKEw1234

Never really been a fan of it, but I actually suggested they try it a few weeks back, based on how Berube uses this roster

I think it was...OK. I think if Coburn's playing well, though, that you don't necessarily need it, because he and Del Zotto can play 22-plus, and Streit's pretty solid at 20, Grossmann at 18...

I wouldn't be opposed it they ran it again, but I'm not the biggest fan of it