Missed the game due to work, just checked out the boxscore.

Bellemare the man in the doghouse now? 7:30 something of ice time. Lowest on team.

Sure it's fair to criticize anybody if it's warranted. But criticize fairly, and based on the factual information. And not based on false perceptions.

You still haven't said how Berube doesn't use him properly.
- MJL

You want fair criticism is it. How about this. The team gives about 10% effort most nights. He's the coach, he lays the system out to the players in which he wants them to play. The team either can't do it for him or won't. The team is playing like poop. What changes had he made. I know you stated he limited lecavalier and Umberger's minutes of the last couple games and moved Laughton up but I believe the results has not changed. The team has 1 win in its last 8 games and has looked terrible doing so. Is that factual enough. I have stated how. Using him in the right situations and having him hitting everything that moves especially in the neutral zone. Maybe 8 minutes is not enough ice time for him to be effective.

I agree, then why bring up what the Lightning did, as if that is the correct formula for every player? Each is an individual and should be developed as an individual.
- MJL

Because the scope of what they did is what we're talking about -- there's no such thing as "truly ready"

Some guys make it. Some guys don't. Some guys fulfill their potential. Some guys underachieve.

But there's no way to know how well a guy will play at this level until you get a look at them at NHL speed

Umberger can no longer play at NHL speed. Can Alderson? Or Straka? Who knows?

No one knows. Just like last year when people weren't sure that Akeson could contribute in the playoffs, but wound up performing adequately.

You don't know until you do know.

Yah..lets focus on him and not the Black holes on lines 2-3!
I agree, cut him..clearly the problem.
- opeth_pa

I don't think any of my posts say Rinaldo is the main issue. Obviously there are far bigger problems. I'm simply stating signing Rinaldo to an extension was dumb, and he's not an NHL player on any contending team.

Of course we have to have people pick the poop out of semantics and defend the trainwreck that is being put on the ice.

Do you think the Flyers should bring up any young player who aren't NHL ready, and play them in the current situation that the team is in?
- MJL

No, I'm not saying to replace our dead weight with green rookies from the AHL, but we some heavy earners, taking up roster spots, that appear to be finished.
Again, this will not "move mountains", but it has to start somewhere.

I'm simply stating signing Rinaldo to an extension was dumb, and he's not an NHL player on any contending team.

- PLindbergh31

Then we can just agree to disagree.

I personally find that as a 4th line player he can skate, hit , fight and while yes he does take a few bad penalties every year he is one of the few players on this team that never takes a shift off.

Think about this for a second, if they were to remove Rinaldo they would become literally the softest team in the league and that is a much bigger problem then then 5-10 minutes a game he gets.

You want fair criticism is it. How about this. The team gives about 10% effort most nights. He's the coach, he lays the system out to the players in which he wants them to play. The team either can't do it for him or won't. The team is playing like poop. What changes had he made. I know you stated he limited lecavalier and Umberger's minutes of the last couple games and moved Laughton up but I believe the results has not changed. The team has 1 win in its last 8 games and has looked terrible doing so. Is that factual enough. I have stated how. Using him in the right situations and having him hitting everything that moves especially in the neutral zone. Maybe 8 minutes is not enough ice time for him to be effective.
- RobFlyers#1

You haven't stated how. You made a false statement that when the team is behind that Berube still rolls 4 lines. How can that be when Rinaldo averages 8:30 a game, and only 7:39 a game is ES icetime.
What changes has Berube made? How many line combinations has he tried. let's discuss each line he has put together. How much time do you have?
Whose fault is it that the team gives 10% effort? Is that on the coach or the players? Does Rinaldo only give effort 10% of the time? Hell, maybe he should play Rinaldo more!

No, I'm not saying to replace our dead weight with green rookies from the AHL, but we some heavy earners, taking up roster spots, that appear to be finished.
Again, this will not "move mountains", but is has to start somewhere.
- puckhead17

They've got some roster holes that they have to fix.

They've got some roster holes that they have to fix.
- MJL

True, and the diminishing ice time given to $9 million of your cap will not get any better with time.

Anyone watching the Hawks game?

Palmeiri gets a 5 minute boarding major for what was a boderline call at best.

As a result of the hit, Carcillo jumps over the bench to fight someone, and that's ignored, and instead called a "too many men".

Awful. Just terrible officiating.

Because the scope of what they did is what we're talking about -- there's no such thing as "truly ready"

Some guys make it. Some guys don't. Some guys fulfill their potential. Some guys underachieve.

But there's no way to know how well a guy will play at this level until you get a look at them at NHL speed

Umberger can no longer play at NHL speed. Can Alderson? Or Straka? Who knows?

No one knows. Just like last year when people weren't sure that Akeson could contribute in the playoffs, but wound up performing adequately.

You don't know until you do know.
- AllInForFlyers

The Flyers brass has a good idea when a player is ready, and when they aren't.

So I'll lay out my opinion on this as concise as I can.

I am not in favor of rushing any player to the NHL, placing them in the current situation that this team is in, just because Umberger and Lecavalier aren't playing well. It's not fair to those players.

If there is a player, down in the AHL that can come up and help the team, make the team better and make an impact such as Laughton has, then by all means bring them up.

Anyone watching the Hawks game?

Palmeiri gets a 5 minute boarding major for what was a boderline call at best.

As a result of the hit, Carcillo jumps over the bench to fight someone, and that's ignored, and instead called a "too many men".

- Giroux_Is_God

I'm sorry that sounds like physical play by both teams and as a 2014-2015 Flyers fan we aren't allowed to know what that is .

I will say, even though I don't think Berube is the coach of the future, firing him now is foolish.

Firing Laviolette was foolish but I could understand it in a way as the team wanted to move toward a move defensive first direction and he wasn't going to be that guy.

Far too many coaches in the last few years. A new guy isn't going to magically make the players better than they are. Just the same as calling them out, or telling them to "try harder". You simply aren't turning an old pick up truck into a Camaro. That's the case here.

The only options Berube has left are to bench LeCavalier and Umberger, otherwise I don't think there is anything else to squeeze out of this group. This is the thing about patience and building properly. Making the right moves, at the right time and suffering a bit to get to better days. Berube should stay on as far as I am concerned. Till the end of the year anyway.

Then we can just agree to disagree.

I personally find that as a 4th line player he can skate, hit , fight and while yes he does take a few bad penalties every year he is one of the few players on this team that never takes a shift off.

Think about this for a second, if they were to remove Rinaldo they would become literally the softest team in the league and that is a much bigger problem then then 5-10 minutes a game he gets.
- opeth_pa

If removing a 5'10" 180 pound 5 minute a game 4th liner makes you the softest team in the League, your roster ain't worth poop.

Regarding trades, again.. The time is not to do it now. I am all in favour of bringing up someone like Lauridsen or Alt, hell even Cousins if they get meaningful minutes to develop.

However trading now is selling low in every way unless you are dealing bSchenn which would be foolish after going through the growing pains and finally seeing the positives.

You ride this out, and if you want to sell do it at the deadline. (unless its one of the bad contracts you can unload of course).

The fanbase wanted a proper rebuild, a new approach, this is it. Stay the course.

If removing a 5'10" 180 pound 5 minutes a game 4th liner makes you the softest team in the League, your roster ain't worth poop.
- PLindbergh31

They are poop. That's the truth. Will be this way for another season as well, or a risk for that anyway.

The bad contracts and dead weight need to be off loaded. They put themselves in this mess, and time will get them out.

I will say, even though I don't think Berube is the coach of the future, firing him now is foolish.

Firing Laviolette was foolish but I could understand it in a way as the team wanted to move toward a move defensive first direction and he wasn't going to be that guy.

Far too many coaches in the last few years. A new guy isn't going to magically make the players better than they are. Just the same as calling them out, or telling them to "try harder". You simply aren't turning an old pick up truck into a Camaro. That's the case here.

The only options Berube has left are to bench LeCavalier and Umberger, otherwise I don't think there is anything else to squeeze out of this group. This is the thing about patience and building properly. Making the right moves, at the right time and suffering a bit to get to better days. Berube should stay on as far as I am concerned. Till the end of the year anyway.
- flyer_nutter

Camaro...


That 80s car.

...

Camaro...


That 80s car.
- mayorofangrytown

They are poop. That's the truth. Will be this way for another season as well, or a risk for that anyway.

The bad contracts and dead weight need to be off loaded. They put themselves in this mess, and time will get them out.
- flyer_nutter

How is it possible to be maxed out with the cap, and ice a dogpoop product? Simple answer. Mis-management. Flyers have had that in spades for years.

If removing a 5'10" 180 pound 5 minute a game 4th liner makes you the softest team in the League, your roster ain't worth poop.
- PLindbergh31

You have watched a Flyers game over the past couple of years right?

Take Rinaldo out and who throws a hit on this team?

You have watched a Flyers game over the past couple of years right?

Take Rinaldo out and who throws a hit on this team?
- opeth_pa

Meh. More worried about scoring goals, killing penalties, etc then I am about players throwing hits.

How is it possible to be maxed out with the cap, and ice a dogpoop product? Simple answer. Mis-management. Flyers have had that in spades for years.
- PLindbergh31

Its a drum I beat for a long time. The constants with this club were not players, or coaches which there was a high turnover of both. Anyway..

The good days will come, just have to hope G and V have got the spark by that time. I will say though, the way Couturier has looked, they may have to hope Laughton becomes that #2 center. If not, another hole to fill. Not as hard to do so though.

You haven't stated how. You made a false statement that when the team is behind that Berube still rolls 4 lines. How can that be when Rinaldo averages 8:30 a game, and only 7:39 a game is ES icetime.
What changes has Berube made? How many line combinations has he tried. let's discuss each line he has put together. How much time do you have?
Whose fault is it that the team gives 10% effort? Is that on the coach or the players? Does Rinaldo only give effort 10% of the time? Hell, maybe he should play Rinaldo more!
- MJL

I have seen more than one game where Berube when losing rolled 4 lines. I believe last thing I said was maybe 8 minutes is not enough for him to be effective. You must missed that. The system in which the team plays is the coach. You can't argue some coaches can get the best out of their players. Why has Umberger not been a healthy scratch, why not Lecavalier or Read. Sometimes doing that especially to veterans motivates them to work harder when they get back in. The way a team plays starts with the coach. Bottom line. I think he's lost this team. They are not playing for him. I don't know how or why your defending him. Is this you Chief?

Meh. More worried about scoring goals, killing penalties, etc then I am about players throwing hits.
- PLindbergh31

If that is the case then you should be all over Read and Couturier for not doing any of those things which they are supposed to excel at..

Like I said..we can agree to disagree.