I have seen more than one game where Berube when losing rolled 4 lines. I believe last thing I said was maybe 8 minutes is not enough for him to be effective. You must missed that. The system in which the team plays is the coach. You can't argue some coaches can get the best out of their players. Why has Umberger not been a healthy scratch, why not Lecavalier or Read. Sometimes doing that especially to veterans motivates them to work harder when they get back in. The way a team plays starts with the coach. Bottom line. I think he's lost this team. They are not playing for him. I don't know how or why your defending him. Is this you Chief?
- RobFlyers#1

There have been times in recent years where the same question was asked but it was often Hartnell or other players that were questioned in this way. Why are they not benched?

I do have an idea personally. How long would a coach last with the bosses at the top, if he started benching the big name players, or those with big salaries? Just a hunch, but I don't think very long. The inability or lack of benching players who are more than 4th liners isn't limited to Berube or this year. To me there is more to it than meets the eye.

Its a drum I beat for a long time. The constants with this club were not players, or coaches which there was a high turnover of both. Anyway..

The good days will come, just have to hope G and V have got the spark by that time. I will say though, the way Couturier has looked, they may have to hope Laughton becomes that #2 center. If not, another hole to fill. Not as hard to do so though.
- flyer_nutter

Couturier is still a baby in terms of age. I don't think he'll ever be a dynamic offensive player, but I think he can easily become a 20 goal scorer that puts up 50+ points. Coupled with his defensive prowess, that's a hell of a player. I think Couturier's offensive game is being stunted because he's asked to do so much defensively in the infancy of his career. Another product of having holes in the lineup. No other center on the roster can be counted on defensively to play against opposing teams top lines.

If that is the case then you should be all over Read and Couturier for not doing any of those things which they are supposed to excel at..

Like I said..we can agree to disagree.
- opeth_pa

I was all over Read a few days ago. He's been brutal. Has to pick up his game significantly.

Couturier is still a baby in terms of age. I don't think he'll ever be a dynamic offensive player, but I think he can easily become a 20 goal scorer that puts up 50+ points. Coupled with his defensive prowess, that's a hell of a player. I think Couturier's offensive game is being stunted because he's asked to do so much defensively in the infancy of his career. Another product of having holes in the lineup. No other center on the roster can be counted on defensively to play against opposing teams top lines.
- PLindbergh31

I don't mind, but I think he's going to be that 3rd line guy as you mentioned. Nothing wrong with that, and I do think the way he was handled early in his time here stunted his offensive growth but is what it is. He's a good player and I hope they keep him.

Do think they will need a more dynamic guy to fill #2C in the future.

I was all over Read a few days ago. He's been brutal. Has to pick up his game significantly.
- PLindbergh31

How is his game any different then what Couturier has done this year?

There have been times in recent years where the same question was asked but it was often Hartnell or other players that were questioned in this way. Why are they not benched?

I do have an idea personally. How long would a coach last with the bosses at the top, if he started benching the big name players, or those with big salaries? Just a hunch, but I don't think very long. The inability or lack of benching players who are more than 4th liners isn't limited to Berube or this year. To me there is more to it than meets the eye.
- flyer_nutter

I don't think there would be a problem from the top unless it was Giroux or Jake at this point. It needs to be done.

I have seen more than one game where Berube when losing rolled 4 lines. I believe last thing I said was maybe 8 minutes is not enough for him to be effective. You must missed that. The system in which the team plays is the coach. You can't argue some coaches can get the best out of their players. Why has Umberger not been a healthy scratch, why not Lecavalier or Read. Sometimes doing that especially to veterans motivates them to work harder when they get back in. The way a team plays starts with the coach. Bottom line. I think he's lost this team. They are not playing for him. I don't know how or why your defending him. Is this you Chief?
- RobFlyers#1

They don't have anybody to replace them that is better!

How is his game any different then what Couturier has done this year?
- opeth_pa

See above post on Couturier. I'm not going to shred him.

They don't have anybody to replace them that is better!
- MJL

Shocker. You mean trading off draft picks for aging rentals kills your prospect pool? Who woulda thunk it.

I don't think there would be a problem from the top unless it was Giroux or Jake at this point. It needs to be done.
- RobFlyers#1

Maybe at this point no. Although I don't doubt for a second the club is looking at itself and not wanting to look even more stupid than they have by essentially benching 8 million.

Same reason why I think there may be issues with buyouts for 18 and 40. For what its worth, and that's little because I don't really know, I think there is pressure from the top that translates down to the coaching staff. Not just this year with Berube.

There are two parts of the Flyers team in the past, that has been a strength of the team. The Couturier/Read tandem at ES, was a line that could check top lines, take D zone starts. Drive play from D zone starts to offensive zone starts, while putting up solid point totals at ES. And the PK, which was always really good. They are missing both of those elements right now. If Read and Couturier can get going, and they can fix the PK. Along with the addition of LAughton and the difference he has made. The Flyers could be a solid team with the dominance of the Giroux line.

Couturier is still a baby in terms of age. I don't think he'll ever be a dynamic offensive player, but I think he can easily become a 20 goal scorer that puts up 50+ points. Coupled with his defensive prowess, that's a hell of a player. I think Couturier's offensive game is being stunted because he's asked to do so much defensively in the infancy of his career. Another product of having holes in the lineup. No other center on the roster can be counted on defensively to play against opposing teams top lines.
- PLindbergh31

Agree with you here. He spends too much time covering for his linemates and their back end to spend anytime in the offensive zone.

Just watched the replays of the goals. Failed clear on the PK, although there wasn't much else MacDonald could do with that. Rangers keep it in, and Laughton drifted too far over, leaving a shooting lane for Boyle with traffic in front of Mason. PP goal. Laughton has played great since his call up, but that's a mistake there.
The St. Louis goal was just pathetic coverage. Mason does give up a juicy rebound, but there are 4 Flyers around the net to two Rangers. And St. Louis pots the rebound. That's just a lack of compete there, and it's brutal.
The shorthanded goal is equally brutal. 4 Flyers below the goal line with only two involved in the puck battle. If you're going down there then outnumber the opposition on the puck, not stand there and hope it comes to you. Rangers dig it out and a 3 on 1 shorthanded. Just brutal breakdown of fundamentals and work ethic there. This team is dysfunctional right now.
- MJL

You left out the THREE turnovers in our own end within seconds of each other that contributed St Louis goal. That was truly the worst defensive end puck possession I have ever seen. There is something very wrong with his team

Maybe at this point no. Although I don't doubt for a second the club is looking at itself and not wanting to look even more stupid than they have by essentially benching 8 million.

Same reason why I think there may be issues with buyouts for 18 and 40. For what its worth, and that's little because I don't really know, I think there is pressure from the top that translates down to the coaching staff. Not just this year with Berube.
- flyer_nutter

Agree with you. It's going to very difficult to shed those contracts. I know Berube can only work with what he has and that comes from the top. Still IMO I don't think he's done a good job at getting his players activated in games.

See above post on Couturier. I'm not going to shred him.
- PLindbergh31

I didn't ask you to shred him, I asked how is his year any different then Read's so far?

I know, the nerve of expecting Couturier to actually do something. He is too young, too defensive, bad assignments, bad wingers..At a certain point maybe he is what he is which is a slightly above average 3 line center and make no mistake about it that is an important part of a team but this walking on egg shells with him needs to stop.

They don't have anybody to replace them that is better!
- MJL

It's not about better. I don't think it could get any worse. I'm sure they have players in the AHL that would love the opportunity to play. It's about hurting their egos in hopes when they get back in the play harder

I guess I made a good decision not to leave work to watch the game. So I have one question. Have they hit rock bottom?
- MJL

I made the wrong choice to go to the game & this was probably the best Flyers highlight of the game.

Agree with you. It's going to very difficult to shed those contracts. I know Berube can only work with what he has and that comes from the top. Still IMO I don't think he's done a good job at getting his players activated in games.
- RobFlyers#1

I've missed a decent number of games this year due to work. The one's I have seen I don't see huge issues with overall effort. No team plays a full ass out 60 minutes. Even the best teams don't but they have the talent to overcome that.

I see an average number of lazy plays or players on a given night. I just don't think there is much more you can squeeze from these guys. Is what it is. Now not to say I wouldn't fire Berube, I would. Just not now.

The Flyers brass has a good idea when a player is ready, and when they aren't.

So I'll lay out my opinion on this as concise as I can.

I am not in favor of rushing any player to the NHL, placing them in the current situation that this team is in, just because Umberger and Lecavalier aren't playing well. It's not fair to those players.

If there is a player, down in the AHL that can come up and help the team, make the team better and make an impact such as Laughton has, then by all means bring them up.
- MJL

Not sure I trust the Flyers brass to make any decisions

I've missed a decent number of games this year due to work. The one's I have seen I don't see huge issues with overall effort. No team plays a full ass out 60 minutes. Even the best teams don't but they have the talent to overcome that.

I see an average number of lazy plays or players on a given night. I just don't think there is much more you can squeeze from these guys. Is what it is. Now not to say I wouldn't fire Berube, I would. Just not now.
- flyer_nutter

Well I have watched all but the last game they played with Islanders. IMO lack of hard effort and being strong on the puck has been a big reason for losing. Also when they have been behind there has not been any real sense of urgency. To be honest with you I believe the biggest issue is the D. They are too slow and can't get the puck out of their end and it's taking a lot of offence away due to the forwards having to spend the majority of time trying to help the D get the puck up the ice. All I can say is thank God for G and Jake or this team would be a lot worse.

Well I have watched all but the last game they played with Islanders. IMO lack of hard effort and being strong on the puck has been a big reason for losing. Also when they have been behind there has not been any real sense of urgency. To be honest with you I believe the biggest issue is the D. They are too slow and can't get the puck out of their end and it's taking a lot of offence away due to the forwards having to spend the majority of time trying to help the D get the puck up the ice. All I can say is thank God for G and Jake or this team would be a lot worse.
- RobFlyers#1

The D is what we all know. Full of guys best suited to secondary roles, but paid to be much more. Streit is playing 20+ minutes a game, but how long can he hold up? Age is not on his side, and he is being paid very well.

Coburn is a good player but again, inconsistency has held him back in his career to best filling a secondary role. As goes for the rest of the boys. MacDonald has a lengthy and highly paid contract for not really living up to it. Grossman and Schenn are decent but probably paid too much for what they bring.

In all its a bad mix, and an expensive one. They need the infusion of talent, and the warhorses back there. You could name the issues up and down, a lack of consistent grit to stand up players at the line or prevent easy entry. Difficulty clearing the front of the net. Inability to carry the puck out is my biggest issue, or god forbid make a move to get around a forechecker to move said puck out.

At the end of it, they just need the elite talent back there imo. Not band-aids.

Ouch..

Sam Carchidi
@BroadStBull
#Flyers are 8-11-3; at this time last year they were 10-10-2 despite 1-7 start.

Ouch..

Sam Carchidi
@BroadStBull
#Flyers are 8-11-3; at this time last year they were 10-10-2 despite 1-7 start.
- opeth_pa

Timonen.

The D is what we all know. Full of guys best suited to secondary roles, but paid to be much more. Streit is playing 20+ minutes a game, but how long can he hold up? Age is not on his side, and he is being paid very well.

Coburn is a good player but again, inconsistency has held him back in his career to best filling a secondary role. As goes for the rest of the boys. MacDonald has a lengthy and highly paid contract for not really living up to it. Grossman and Schenn are decent but probably paid too much for what they bring.

In all its a bad mix, and an expensive one. They need the infusion of talent, and the warhorses back there. You could name the issues up and down, a lack of consistent grit to stand up players at the line or prevent easy entry. Difficulty clearing the front of the net. Inability to carry the puck out is my biggest issue, or god forbid make a move to get around a forechecker to move said puck out.

At the end of it, they just need the elite talent back there imo. Not band-aids.
- flyer_nutter

Agree. They need D back there that can skate and get the puck up to the forwards.

Ouch..

Sam Carchidi
@BroadStBull
#Flyers are 8-11-3; at this time last year they were 10-10-2 despite 1-7 start.
- opeth_pa

Woof -- that is sobering