Outside of the top line, the forwards are a bigger problem than the defensemen right now.
- bmeltzer

Between Vinny and Umberger bogging lines down and an abysmal PK I cannot disagree.

At least they are letting Laughton play. As far as I'm concerned he's got the 2nd line Center job on lockdown. Coots really under performing this year.

Buyouts are 2/3 of the total remaining cap hit divided by 2x the amount of years left. For VL it would cost 1.5m for 6 years and for Umberger it would cost 1.5m for 4 years
- PhillySportsGuy

That's not correct.

If they bought out Lecavalier this June, the buyout would be through 20/21, and the cap hits would be $2,888,889 for years 15/16 through 17/18. And $888,889 for the remaining years.

For Umberger, the buyout would be for four seasons through 18/19. The cap hit would be 1.6M for the first two years, then 1.5M for the remaining two years.

so, what's the point of all this talk about buying them out?
- Dkos

they can buy them out and save money on the cap. But they will have dead cap money for a number of years. See the post above.

Between Vinny and Umberger bogging lines down and an abysmal PK I cannot disagree.

At least they are letting Laughton play. As far as I'm concerned he's got the 2nd line Center job on lockdown. Coots really under performing this year.
- hereticpride

He really needs to get it going. He's been a strength of this team, but this year, it's really hurting the Flyers.

That's not correct.

If they bought out Lecavalier this June, the buyout would be through 20/21, and the cap hits would be $2,888,889 for years 15/16 through 17/18. And $888,889 for the remaining years.

For Umberger, the buyout would be for four seasons through 18/19. The cap hit would be 1.6M for the first two years, then 1.5M for the remaining two years.
- MJL

I guess VLs is different because of the structure. Actually makes it more team friendly in the long term than I thought

I guess VLs is different because of the structure. Actually makes it more team friendly in the long term than I thought
- PhillySportsGuy

Signing bonuses are not included in the buyout. They still have to be paid even if the player is bought out.

My thought is at what point do the bean counters at Comcast put a halt to it. Bought out Briere and Bryzgalov. Now will buying out Lecavalier and Umberger be approved if that's what they want to do?

they can buy them out and save money on the cap. But they will have dead cap money for a number of years. See the post above.
- MJL

Right, but they can't do it until the end of the season. How's this help them now? I know people are pissed that the Flyers suck, but you still have to deal with the reality of the situation. Everyone knows VLC and Umby are not playing well. In reality what can chief do about it? He can play them and hope they play their way out of their funk, he can cut their time and hope that motivates them to play better. I guess he can bench them, but really what do the Flyers have to replace them that's much better? It's just the reality of the situation. Berube didn't create it.

Signing bonuses are not included in the buyout. They still have to be paid even if the player is bought out.

My thought is at what point do the bean counters at Comcast put a halt to it. Bought out Briere and Bryzgalov. Now will buying out Lecavalier and Umberger be approved if that's what they want to do?
- MJL

I would do what it takes to move the guys and try to recoup some cap room by bringing Ghost, and maybe Morin in next year over some of our pricier defenders. They'll have those guys and Laughton on ELC's for a bit so a bit of dead cap room and a better team is probably better than continuing to try and force round pegs into square holes like you are with Vinny and Umberger.

Right, but they can't do it until the end of the season. How's this help them now? I know people are pissed that the Flyers suck, but you still have to deal with the reality of the situation. Everyone knows VLC and Umby are not playing well. In reality what can chief do about it? He can play them and hope they play their way out of their funk, he can cut their time and hope that motivates them to play better. I guess he can bench them, but really what do the Flyers have to replace them that's much better? It's just the reality of the situation. Berube didn't create it.
- Dkos

Well said, and right on the money. This team still has enough players to be a solid team. They aren't where they are right now just because of Umberger and Lecavalier. They have plenty of other good players. They just aren't a very good team right now.

From an outside perspective, what surprised me most today, is the lack of snarl and nastiness from a team who just got embarrassed 2 games in a row by a hated rival. no scrum or pushing a shoving no heated yelling between benches. Looked like just a bunch of uninterested players going through the motions. Especially simmonds. What's up with that guy? If you told me he didn't play the last 2 games I would believe you. This from the guy who said he was out for blood against NY this year. So needless to say, I was shocked to see he had quit too. While I love to beat the flyers, especially as a rangers fan in flyers country, these games were in a way dissapointing to me. It's not what I've come to expect from a rangers flyers home and home.

Unfortunately in pro sports, when a team quits, it's more often than not put on the coach. Players are rarely held accountable. And it's a shame in this case because imo this isn't on berube, but he'll probably be unemployed soon. The flyers, while they have very talented players, just have a bad mix. They also have a bunch of stay at home dmen who are not very good at moving the puck quickly to their talented forwards.

Lastly, I think Holmgren was studying under Sather during his years of stupidity right after the lockout. Holy crap the Macdonald and Lecavalier contracts are awful. Like seriously, wtf was he thinking?

I would do what it takes to move the guys and try to recoup some cap room by bringing Ghost, and maybe Morin in next year over some of our pricier defenders. They'll have those guys and Laughton on ELC's for a bit so a bit of dead cap room and a better team is probably better than continuing to try and force round pegs into square holes like you are with Vinny and Umberger.
- hereticpride

I don't think there is any question that some changes are going to be made in the off season, to make room for one or more of the young defenseman.

Personally, if the play of Umberger and Lecavalier doesn't change. I'd still keep Umberger and buyout Lecavalier. You can still use Umberger on the 4th line and the PK. With that said, if they need the cap space to do something, then buying out both is an option.

Per twitter Dallas, Florida, Edmonton, and Buffalo were scouting today's game.
- hereticpride

Edmonton and Buffalo are all like "WTF...objects in the rearview mirror are closer than they appear"

He really needs to get it going. He's been a strength of this team, but this year, it's really hurting the Flyers.
- MJL

With the way line 2 is playing with Laughton I keep Coots at 3rd line C and increase his PK minutes. Basically his role last year. If he can excel doing that job I say let him excel at it and leave it be. I would like to see him become more of an offensive type player but it cant be forced. If anything I'd like to see the team get him and Read a LW that can lighten the defensive burden on those two.

From an outside perspective, what surprised me most today, is the lack of snarl and nastiness from a team who just got embarrassed 2 games in a row by a hated rival. no scrum or pushing a shoving no heated yelling between benches. Looked like just a bunch of uninterested players going through the motions. Especially simmonds. What's up with that guy? If you told me he didn't play the last 2 games I would believe you. This from the guy who said he was out for blood against NY this year. So needless to say, I was shocked to see he had quit too. While I love to beat the flyers, especially as a rangers fan in flyers country, these games were in a way dissapointing to me. It's not what I've come to expect from a rangers flyers home and home.

Unfortunately in pro sports, when a team quits, it's more often than not put on the coach. Players are rarely held accountable. And it's a shame in this case because imo this isn't on berube, but he'll probably be unemployed soon. The flyers, while they have very talented players, just have a bad mix. They also have a bunch of stay at home dmen who are not very good at moving the puck quickly to their talented forwards.

Lastly, I think Holmgren was studying under Sather during his years of stupidity right after the lockout. Holy crap the Macdonald and Lecavalier contracts are awful. Like seriously, wtf was he thinking?
- mjh609

I agree with a lot of what you state here. Especially the first paragraph. Very disappointing. I think MAcDonald is a solid defenseman, and I don't have an issue with the contract.

With the way line 2 is playing with Laughton I keep Coots at 3rd line C and increase his PK minutes. Basically his role last year. If he can excel doing that job I say let him excel at it and leave it be. I would like to see him become more of an offensive type player but it cant be forced. If anything I'd like to see the team get him and Read a LW that can lighten the defensive burden on those two.
- hereticpride

I think his PK minutes need to decrease actually.

I don't think there is any question that some changes are going to be made in the off season, to make room for one or more of the young defenseman.

Personally, if the play of Umberger and Lecavalier doesn't change. I'd still keep Umberger and buyout Lecavalier. You can still use Umberger on the 4th line and the PK. With that said, if they need the cap space to do something, then buying out both is an option.
- MJL

I agree. I would sooner buy out Vinny.

There is potential down the road to try and make a team take on RJ in part of a larger deal. I think if he were to get moved, that's how it would be done.

Right, but they can't do it until the end of the season. How's this help them now? I know people are pissed that the Flyers suck, but you still have to deal with the reality of the situation. Everyone knows VLC and Umby are not playing well. In reality what can chief do about it? He can play them and hope they play their way out of their funk, he can cut their time and hope that motivates them to play better. I guess he can bench them, but really what do the Flyers have to replace them that's much better? It's just the reality of the situation. Berube didn't create it.
- Dkos

You can scratch them both, and should -- Umberger should be waived

They are the worst two forwards, now that Akeson has been sent down. Use the cash you save by waiving Umberger and find someone who cares

I agree. I would sooner buy out Vinny.

There is potential down the road to try and make a team take on RJ in part of a larger deal. I think if he were to get moved, that's how it would be done.
- hereticpride

I disagree -- neither of them can play, but Vinny at least has hands.

Umberger's a shot player. He's below-replacement level

Edmonton and Buffalo are all like "WTF...objects in the rearview mirror are closer than they appear"
- AllInForFlyers

For what it's worth Buffalo, Columbus and Edmonton all he goal differentials more than double us. We're close in the standings but they appear to be far worse teams... if you can believe it.

I disagree -- neither of them can play, but Vinny at least has hands.

Umberger's a shot player. He's below-replacement level
- AllInForFlyers

I disagree. Umberger can still play a 4th line role and play on the PK. The problem is how much he is paid, and his cap hit.

Tell Vinny to bring his hands to a game for a change.

Del Zotto and Streit haven't been very good lately.
- MJL

That's true, but they are still pushing forward offensively and generating chances, even if they haven't played well defensively.

For what it's worth Buffalo, Columbus and Edmonton all he goal differentials more than double us. We're close in the standings but they appear to be far worse teams... if you can believe it.
- hereticpride

Ha! I believe it --Flyers shouldn't be this bad

Need to get some guys off this roster

I disagree. Umberger can still play a 4th line role and play on the PK. The problem is how much he is paid, and his cap hit.

Tell Vinny to bring his hands to a game for a change.
- MJL

As soon as you tell Umberger to win a 50-50 puck

That's true, but they are still pushing forward offensively and generating chances, even if they haven't played well defensively.
- ManCity

Honestly, I think it's incredibly hard to judge defenseman when the team is as dysfunctional as it is. It's unimpeded rush after rush against the defense. And facing heavy forecheck pressure for long periods of games. Hard enough to play defense under normal circumstances.

I disagree. Umberger can still play a 4th line role and play on the PK. The problem is how much he is paid, and his cap hit.

Tell Vinny to bring his hands to a game for a change.
- MJL

Yeah, I just don't see where we could fit Vinny in moving forward. I wouldn't even want him as the 4th line center. I would probably bury him as the 4th line RW to be honest. RJ can at the very least handle 4th line duties and do it effectively.