What team out there can even absorb that kind of contract in addition to Coburn?

I understand what he's trying to do, but my gosh, that is going to be one of the heaviest lifts I've ever seen in this sport, because of the cap

If you're a bad team, you can stay bad and keep your player and keep your cap space

If you're a good team, you probably don't have a ton of cap space to begin with

I just don't see how that gets done -- not like that
- AllInForFlyers

It'll probably require the Flyers eating some of the deal, preventing the long term impact of a buy out, as well as getting certain guys off the roster.

If they trade Coburn and Umberger for Perron, for instance, they could eat $1.5mm of Umberger's deal and be better off cap wise than with a buy out

For me it's the double standard. These players have to be laughing walking past that sign while following umberger to the rink while you high five Bellemare in street clothes
- Just5

Exactly. The players know who is playing well and who they want on the ice. I'm sure they're asking the same questions we are about why Umberger is getting fairly consistent ice time and Bellemare is sitting in the press box.

I'll be honest, I haven't seen anything from Bellemare that makes me believe he isn't working hard. It's absurd to sit him and say he doesn't work hard enough while Lecavalier continues to casually play 'hockey'. The only time this guy gives a poop is when the team is about to go on a 5 on 3. Thats when he feels the need to ramp things up.

It's crazy how dumb they look at times. So many times they ruin their own opportunities
- Jsaquella

It's what happens when you lose confidence in your teammates and the entire system breaks down. Players feel they need to do more and end up being out of position or doing something stupid.

When Grossmann can't handle a simple pass at the point, it would make you second guess delivering a quick pass to him when it's the only play available.

It'll probably require the Flyers eating some of the deal, preventing the long term impact of a buy out, as well as getting certain guys off the roster.

If they trade Coburn and Umberger for Perron, for instance, they could eat $1.5mm of Umberger's deal and be better off cap wise than with a buy out
- Jsaquella

Man, I am a big fan of Coburn's -- I am

But even I'll say Craig MacTavish should be fired immediately if he takes two more years of Umberger, no matter how much the Flyers pick up, just to acquire him

That's crazy -- you can flip Perron anywhere without taking dead weight. You just don't need Coburn that badly -- no one does

The only players I'd swallow Umberger's contract for are Simmonds and Voracek -- I don't mention Giroux because at 8.25, that deal would never get done

But I'm dead serious -- Simmonds and Voracek are the only players on the Flyers whose contracts and production warrants taking another two years of Umberger or three years of Vinny

They are slow. There are times when they play faster, but overall, they lack speed. It was something I thought they could have addressed in the offseason. For some reason, they thought Umberger was so much faster than Hartnell. It's like they didn't watch this guy play all last season.
- PhillySportsGuy

This organization has always had hard ons for former players. Doesn't matter how long ago it was or how old they are. It's amazing

Hard to win those battles when in many of them we only have 1 player going against 2 or more from the other team while the rest of our players watch as if they are in the stands.
- ob18

I don't know how many times I've seen Grossmann check and pin a forechecker up along the boards, leaving a loose puck there to win, and another forechecker is the only one that engages and tries to make a play for it.

HNIC transcript from http://www.nicholsonhocke...anada-saturdays-headlines

Friedman: "A lot of fans in Edmonton and Philadelphia wondering about their particular teams. The word from other clubs who try to deal with them is they are trying to be careful. They don't want to make a panic, no-reason move in this year that's only going to cost them long-term. In Philly in particular, the word is if you want one of their valuable players who might be available, you may have to take another contract if you want that deal done."
- Jsaquella

coby, BSchenn, RJ, VLC to edmonton for Nurse, (Eberle) and Yak.

Exactly. The players know who is playing well and who they want on the ice. I'm sure they're asking the same questions we are about why Umberger is getting fairly consistent ice time and Bellemare is sitting in the press box.

I'll be honest, I haven't seen anything from Bellemare that makes me believe he isn't working hard. It's absurd to sit him and say he doesn't work hard enough while Lecavalier continues to casually play 'hockey'. The only time this guy gives a poop is when the team is about to go on a 5 on 3. Thats when he feels the need to ramp things up.
- PhillySportsGuy

I think Hexy has a hand in this. I really do. Obviously when they scratch umberger and lecavalier, it's hard to engage in trade talks when that happens. The players aren't dumb, the fans aren't dumb, other teams aren't dumb.

It's just not possible that a hockey coach can honestly assess the play of PEB, umberger, and vinny. Then pick PEB as the one to sit

poops going to go down soon. Whether it be a trade, or just the plug pulled on the 2 corpses.

What team out there can even absorb that kind of contract in addition to Coburn?

I understand what he's trying to do, but my gosh, that is going to be one of the heaviest lifts I've ever seen in this sport, because of the cap

If you're a bad team, you can stay bad and keep your player and keep your cap space

If you're a good team, you probably don't have a ton of cap space to begin with

I just don't see how that gets done -- not like that
- AllInForFlyers

Trade proposals are always crazy at this time of year. Nobody wants to completely look like they are giving up on the season so prices are ridiculous to see if anybody will bite like Snow did last year with the Vanek deal. Prices come down after the christmas trade freeze. The Flyers will have to buyout Lecavalier and Umberger will either get waived in hopes he retires or be bought out too,

I think Hexy has a hand in this. I really do. Obviously when they scratch umberger and lecavalier, it's hard to engage in trade talks when that happens. The players aren't dumb, the fans aren't dumb, other teams aren't dumb.

It's just not possible that a hockey coach can honestly assess the play of PEB, umberger, and vinny. Then pick PEB as the one to sit

poops going to go down soon. Whether it be a trade, or just the plug pulled on the 2 corpses.
- Just5

I'm being completely honest when I say scratching them may help their trade value.

poops going to go down soon. Whether it be a trade, or just the plug pulled on the 2 corpses.
- Just5

Something has to happen -- you can't keep running these guys out there

You might lose the rest of the way, get a high lottery pick

But you don't have to do it with these exact players, and you shouldn't

Trade proposals are always crazy at this time of year. Nobody wants to completely look like they are giving up on the season so prices are ridiculous to see if anybody will bite like Snow did last year with the Vanek deal. Prices come down after the christmas trade freeze. The Flyers will have to buyout Lecavalier and Umberger will either get waived in hopes he retires or be bought out too,
- psuhockey

Umberger needs to retire; Lecavalier will have to look long and hard at his game and desire to compete

Rumor on twitter that former Flyer defenseman Marc-Andre Bourdon will be announcing his retirement due to PCS.

Not a surprise, but it definitely sucks. Good luck to him in the future
- Jsaquella

That definitely sucks.

I'm being completely honest when I say scratching them may help their trade value.
- PhillySportsGuy

I think VLC is close to getting scratched now.
Umby may stick around on a 4th line.

At least till summer, then he'll get bought out.

Umberger needs to retire; Lecavalier will have to look long and hard at his game and desire to compete
- AllInForFlyers

Both will collect their paycheck for the length of their contracts. Just like anyone else.

i know im late to the party but, PeB scratched and vinny/berger played? what (frank)ing purpose did that serve other than alienating tge rest of the team?

That definitely sucks.
- jstross

Feel bad for bourdon.
He was a decent player.

I'm being completely honest when I say scratching them may help their trade value.
- PhillySportsGuy

i think theyre gonna have to eat a big slice of buyout pie

Umberger needs to retire; Lecavalier will have to look long and hard at his game and desire to compete
- AllInForFlyers

Problem with guaranteed contracts is that these guys can just right out their contracts doing jack. They are not going to retire and give of millions of dollars owed to them unfortunately.

Both will collect their paycheck for the length of their contracts. Just like anyone else.
- hereticpride

That kind of attack on my soul is uncalled for -- what have i ever done to you?

There's a reason why the flyers have a good name with the players around the league. It's Bc of deals like amac's.
- Just5

What does this even mean?

Problem with guaranteed contracts is that these guys can just right out their contracts doing jack. They are not going to retire and give of millions of dollars owed to them unfortunately.
- psuhockey

Agreed; I was more talking about if/when they get bought out, but yeah, they're not leaving cash on the table

i think theyre gonna have to eat a big slice of buyout pie
- JoeRussomanno

That's what I'm thinking -- no one is going to help them out of this. They're going to have to help themselves

It doesn't. There's a multitude of changes needed to fix things. It's going to take some time.

People are frustrated at seeing Umberger play like an AHL call up while he's carrying a $4.6mm cap hit. Hall was about $4mm cheaper, as good or better on the PK and brought the added bonus of being a very good face off man.
- Jsaquella

But wasn't much of a ES player.

i know im late to the party but, PeB scratched and vinny/berger played? what (frank)ing purpose did that serve other than alienating tge rest of the team?
- JoeRussomanno

Berube said PEB was "not digging in hard enough", whatever that means.

I'm pretty sure Vinnie hasn't been digging in either.