That only shows that Eberle has been better and developed earlier as a player.

You're making a false argument here. Because the point totals that Eberle put up in past seasons, won't help the Flyers now.

Right now, Eberle is on pace for 14 goals, and 39 assists for 53 pts.

Schenn is on pace for 26 goals, and 29 assists for 55 pts.

Eberle has a 6M cap hit, and Brayden Schenn has a 2.5M cap hit.

If we could eliminate the cap hit from the equation, I'd trade Schenn for Eberle. But that's not the case.
- MJL

So you disregard Eberle's past production, but you use Couturier's 39 point season last year in your argument that he has offensive potential?

I think what those stats show is that Eberle is just a more naturally gifted goal scorer than Schenn.

That only shows that Eberle has been better and developed earlier as a player.

You're making a false argument here. Because the point totals that Eberle put up in past seasons, won't help the Flyers now.

Right now, Eberle is on pace for 14 goals, and 39 assists for 53 pts.

Schenn is on pace for 26 goals, and 29 assists for 55 pts.

Eberle has a 6M cap hit, and Brayden Schenn has a 2.5M cap hit.

If we could eliminate the cap hit from the equation, I'd trade Schenn for Eberle. But that's not the case.
- MJL

On pace for... that phrase needs to go away. Like anybody was ever locked into Oct-Nov scoring rates for the balance of the season.

I want to know one thing. Does this Flyers team have any pride?
- MJL

They're just not a good team this year. There are a lot of holes on this team and I wouldn't wait to fill them. We can place the blame on two players but even our second best looking line is ineffective. Weak on LW. No stud number 1 defenseman. Could use much more grit and toughness. PK needs serious work. Second PP unit is pathetic compared to the first PP unit. We could use a playmaker somewhere within the bottom nine.

For as well as Scott Laughton has played, he's being handed gifts in terms of opportunities to score and he's either not ready when being fed the puck or mishandling it. I feel for the kid but I feel even more sorry for Raffl and Simmonds because they're doing what they csn for Laughton but no finish on each play.

As long as we trade couturier for another defenseman that can ride the bench, I'll be happy

A ray of sunshine that line

I think Read is showing signs of coming to life as well, but it could be just me wishing for it as well
- Marc D

They're all fast and play more of a crash/bang game -- complement each other nicely.

Read does seem to have a little bit more jump.

As long as we trade couturier for another defenseman that can ride the bench, I'll be happy
- funmaster18

Step 1: Waive LSchenn
Step 2: Another team claims LSchenn
Step 3: couturier for LSchenn

Step 2 is a little hazy but otherwise it's foolproof

So you disregard Eberle's past production, but you use Couturier's 39 point season last year in your argument that he has offensive potential?

I think what those stats show is that Eberle is just a more naturally gifted goal scorer than Schenn.
- rangerdanger94

Off point again. That's a different discussion. Looking at what potential a player has, is different then discussing a prospective trade.

Players develop at their own pace, and as individuals. No question that Eberle has been a top offensive player longer then Schenn has. But the question is how much better is Eberle now, if Schenn continues to break out. Is it worth the disparity in cap hits. That's what you're ignoring in your equation.

That only shows that Eberle has been better and developed earlier as a player.

You're making a false argument here. Because the point totals that Eberle put up in past seasons, won't help the Flyers now.

Right now, Eberle is on pace for 14 goals, and 39 assists for 53 pts.

Schenn is on pace for 26 goals, and 29 assists for 55 pts.

Eberle has a 6M cap hit, and Brayden Schenn has a 2.5M cap hit.

If we could eliminate the cap hit from the equation, I'd trade Schenn for Eberle. But that's not the case.
- MJL

I would not trade Schenn for Eberle. Already within his young career, he's priced himself out for my liking.

Step 1: Waive LSchenn
Step 2: Another team claims LSchenn
Step 3: couturier for LSchenn

Step 2 is a little hazy but otherwise it's foolproof
- BulliesPhan87

Finally someone who gets it

On pace for... that phrase needs to go away. Like anybody was ever locked into Oct-Nov scoring rates for the balance of the season.
- Tomahawk

It's not about being locked into a scoring rate. It simply shows how the player has played to this point offensively. And puts it into context.

Finally someone who gets it
- funmaster18

ty

I'd rate Cooter higher than Moore or Boyle. Having said that, I would send Coots in a package for the right number 1 dman.
- Hextall271

I'm not a fan of moving Coots for the sake of moving him unless it makes out team better for years to come.

The FA's who could be picked up in the off season are older. It's true this kid hasn't produced offensive numbers we had hoped for, but part of it is a product of the situations he's been placed in over the past 3+ years. His shutdown of Malkin his rookie year was probably as much as a blessing to him as a curse.

He's only 21. And he has shown glimpses of offensive production, at least enough for him to play as a third line center for the next decade. If he continues to grow physically, and becomes more confident and comfortable with his offensive talents, then even the second line. His skating, which was average at best when he came into the league, has improved considerably already.

Again, he's only 21 and has been mainly been given defensive responsibilities for the majority of his career to date.

With the right coaching, placed in the right situation, and the right wingers, who knows? I'd be willing to hold off the trading dogs for now and give him a proper chance.

Eberly for Coots sounds interesting. Call Edm to see how they feel about it and get back to me.

I think you could get Eberle for Couturier for a few reasons. Number one, Edmonton is looking for a shakeup. Two, they are looking for a big center via that shakeup. Three, they could use a player who has the potential to be a shutdown center. Four, due to Couturier's age, he is an attractive target because of his "potential".

With that said, potential is just that: potential. It is not guaranteed and is something that is always a gamble in sports. The Stars traded for Seguin due to his potential and they won that risk. On the other hand, the Oilers have held onto Yakupov due to his potential and he seems to be looking more and more like a bust every day and likely won't fetch much in a trade at all now.
- rangerdanger94

If that's the case, I'd rather make a lower risk (cost) trade for Yak and his upside than trade Coots to bring in Eberle and his cap hit.

They're just not a good team this year. There are a lot of holes on this team and I wouldn't wait to fill them. We can place the blame on two players but even our second best looking line is ineffective. Weak on LW. No stud number 1 defenseman. Could use much more grit and toughness. PK needs serious work. Second PP unit is pathetic compared to the first PP unit. We could use a playmaker somewhere within the bottom nine.

For as well as Scott Laughton has played, he's being handed gifts in terms of opportunities to score and he's either not ready when being fed the puck of miss handling it. I feel for the kid but I feel even more sorry for Raffl and Simmonds because they're doing what they csn for Laughton but no finish on each play.
- SuperSchennBros

I would not feel bad for Laughts

He is making the most of his opportunity this time

Agree he has bobbled a couple of good scoring chances but he is creating and getting them

Lets look at some facts, because it seems that some are unaware of them, such as the Rangers fan, who you say makes a good point.

First of all, we have to look at Couturier's deployment as a player. Last year, he was used in a very high level of defensive zone starts, one of the highest percentages in the entire league, and against top lines. Which is a detriment to offensive production in and of it's own.

But he still managed to put 31 points in ES play. Compare that to other players on the team, who played in far more favorable offensive situations. Voracek had 39 ES points. Simmonds had 36 ES points, Read had 34, Hartnell and B Schenn had 32 ES points. Considering the usage and who he played against on a regular basis. Pretty strong ES point totals for Couturier. And absolutely shows that he has potential to be more then a 3rd line shutdown center, because despite that deployment, he has already put up 2nd line ES point totals. So let's look at that factually.

There are 30 teams in the League. 4 regular centers on a team in the lineup. Couturier ranked 51st in the League among all centers, in ES points last year. That is 2nd line center numbers. And then look at the list of centers he was comparable to in ES points. In the ball park with a lot of quality players.

Couturier hasn't been a good PP point producer, which is why his point totals overall, are lower.

The bottom line is, that anyone stating that Couturier has not shown signs of being more then a 3rd line shutdown center, is misinformed.
- MJL

You make a really good argument for Couturier. But it's still hard to see him as much more than a third line shut-down center. If he was faster and or stronger...maybe. It doesn't seem likely that he's going to get any faster. I guess he'll get stronger, but right now he seems easy to knock off the puck.

Surely Ba-Ba-Roobey won't go with the same gutless lineup as yesterday.

I would put Carlo C in the lineup for MacDonald. He can keep Luke Schenn company in the press box. They can play patty cakes with Homey Da Clown.

- rangerdanger94

Perhaps you could explain your chuckle?

It's not about being locked into a scoring rate. It simply shows how the player has played to this point offensively. And puts it into context.
- MJL

Then just state it in terms of points/game or points/minute or something... if you say on-pace-for, it sounds like you're trying to be predictive.

Sorry, just a pet peeve.

I'm not a fan of moving Coots for the sake of moving him unless it makes out team better for years to come.

The FA's who could be picked up in the off season are older. It's true this kid hasn't produced offensive numbers we had hoped for, but part of it is a product of the situations he's been placed in over the past 3+ years. His shutdown of Malkin his rookie year was probably as much as a blessing to him as a curse.

Again, he's only 21. And he has shown glimpses of offensive production, at least enough for him to play as a third line center for the next decade. If he continues to grow physically, and becomes more confident and comfortable with his offensive talents, then even the second line. His skating, which was average at best when he came into the league, has improved considerably already.

Again, he's only 21 and has been mainly been given defensive responsibilities for the majority of his career to date.

With the right coaching, placed in the right situation, and the right wingers, who knows? I'd be willing to hold off the trading dogs for now and give him a proper chance.

Eberly for Coots sounds interesting. Call Edm to see how they feel about it and get back to me.
- 77rams

But again, do we want to construct a team with no defensive minded forwards? Especiall if we continue to manage with a sub par D. Also, he's young.. I think he's going to improve and become more consistent and I'm tired of seeing us give up on younger talent and seeing them blossom with other teams.

I would not feel bad for Laughts

He is making the most of his opportunity this time

Agree he has bobbled a couple of good scoring chances but he is creating and getting them
- Marc D

I think I have to feel sorry for Simmonds because I'm seeing a guy leading by example for that line but isn't seeing opportunities at even strength with Giroux. Simmonds is a top line player who has never played on the top line. It's a gamble but I'd split G and Jake. I think they're good together and apart.

He had a great playoffs a few years ago and an okay season last year. This season, like everyone not named Giroux or Voracek, he has done nothing outstanding defensively(-3 in 22 games) or offensively (8 points in 22 games).

My question on Couturier is when will the excuses stop.
He is young
He is being used in the wrong role
He has meh wingers.


I think he would be an above average 3 line defensive center , which is a valuable asset to have.
I think he would be a below average 2 line center.

I just don't understand the untouchable part about him..Assuming realistic trades to me you have Giroux, Voracek and Mason as the only untouchable players on this team.

You make a really good argument for Couturier. But it's still hard to see him as much more than a third line shut-down center. If he was faster and or stronger...maybe. It doesn't seem likely that he's going to get any faster. I guess he'll get stronger, but right now he seems easy to knock off the puck.
- Dkos

He's not playing well right now. But I don't think he's easy to knock off the puck. I can't wait to see this kid when he's 25. Look at Jake Voracek. Coming into stardom at 25. I'm not saying that Couturier is going to be an offensive player on that level. But I fully expect him to be a top 2 way second line center, that can score in the 20 goal, 50 point range.

Surely Ba-Ba-Roobey won't go with the same gutless lineup as yesterday.

I would put Carlo C in the lineup for MacDonald. He can keep Luke Schenn company in the press box. They can play patty cakes with Homey Da Clown.
- PLindbergh31

I'm ready for Luke to get back in

Guess I'm a masochist because I'll watch today knowing the likely outcome

ty
- BulliesPhan87

Only constructive criticism would be to pump your chest a bit harder and try to insult the other poster next time

Then just state it in terms of points/game or points/minute or something... if you say on-pace-for, it sounds like you're trying to be predictive.

Sorry, just a pet peeve.
- Tomahawk

I'll say it how I want to say it. And you can say it how you want to say it. Points per minute is badly flawed.