Are they still missing people from injury too?
- PhillySportsGuy

Slowly getting guys back. Dubinsky is due to make his debut soon.

does it make one less than intelligent if they cant read the debate between mjl and new guy for fear of sudden stroke induced migraine and vertigo?
edit: no offense to either chap, i just cant take posts that are longer than 5 sentences with regularity

Slowly getting guys back. Dubinsky is due to make his debut soon.
- Jsaquella

I think Dubinsky means a lot to that team. Takes a great deal of the burden away from Johansson

I'm hoping they stay bad so maybe prices drop on stubhub for their game in Phoenix.

I think Dubinsky means a lot to that team. Takes a great deal of the burden away from Johansson
- PhillySportsGuy

They'll experience a bit of a bump when they get guys back, too. Bobrovsky has to find his groove as well. He's been up and down so far

I don't think MDZ has hit the net in about 2 weeks. Had a lot of chances but just fires it wide all the time
- 3flyerkids

He's been much less dynamic since going down with that LBI

I think Dubinsky means a lot to that team. Takes a great deal of the burden away from Johansson
- PhillySportsGuy

Remember when people thought they won the Nash trade?

Nyuck nyuck nycuk

My liver is really starting to hate me.

Should be benched: AMac, Umberger and Vinny

Will be benched: CC, L Schenn and VDV

He'll dress Vinny, he'll play all of 3 minutes but he'll dress him. No worries though, I'm sure the extra minutes will go to RJ
- BiggE

I agree with the should be benched, but VDV, Vinny, and Umberger seem to find ways to play anyway.

Based on Laughton's success up here, I would get Leier up here and see what he could do. Laughton's speed has made him noticeable and I think Leier's could do the same.

Schenn/Giroux/Voracek
Raffl/Laughton/Simmonds
Read/Bellemare/Leier
?/Couturier/Rinaldo

At least the first three lines have the speed to compete.

How so? Explain why that is the case? How does contextual influences change over time with regards to on ice results, that eliminates the problem of false data?

So you're admitting that a players Corsi numbers will be greatly affected by who he plays with, and how good the team he plays on is. Proves my point. As far as the last point, that his performance relative to his teammates would either remain poor or drop even further. That's an unprovable assumption that is obviously coming from a biased point of view. And that bias is built from the very same premise of who MacDonald has played with, and how he has been used, have greatly affected the numbers that the very opinion you have of the player has been entirely based on. What we also might, and I emphasis might find, is that MacDonald might actually thrive playing on a solid team, with solid puck support and team defense, where he can be properly employed, and utilize the strengths and skill set that he has, for the first time in his career. But you've already eliminated that from the possible outcomes. Which demonstrates the understanding of Corsi that you have. Maybe when we get done discussing the badly flawed stat that Corsi is, we can move on to another badly flawed stat, relative corsi.
- MJL

I think you blatantly ignored the part of the article that touched on a core component on which you're trying to pass off as a flaw. Let me paste it in here to test your reading comprehension:

I divided opponents up into four categories:
Poor Opponents (sub 47% Corsi players):
Mediocre Opponents (Corsi between 47% and 49.5%)
Good Opponents (Corsi between 49.5% and 53%)
Elite Opponents (Corsi above 53%)

Here's last year:

Amac vs Poor Opponents: Average Corsi of these opponents: 44% (Terrible). Actual vs AMac: 47%
Amac vs Mediocre Opponents: Average Corsi of these opponents: 48.5% (Meh): Actual vs AMac: 53.2%
AMac vs Good Opponents: Average Corsi of these opponents: 51.1% (Good): Actual vs AMac: 54%
AMac vs Elite Opponents: Average Corsi of these opponents: 56.5% (elite): Actual vs AMac: 58.2%

AMac indeed did fare poorly vs top competition - 58.2% Corsi is incredibly great play by those opponents and horrible play by the Isles. And good opponents similarly outperformed their average performances vs Amac - instead of just barely outperforming the Isles as they usually would have, they strongly won the possession battle vs AMac.

And here's the problem: even BAD opponents are outperforming their averages against Amac! Mediocre players, who usually lose the possession battle, performed nearly as well as the good opponents and clearly won the battle to get into our own zone. And the Crappy opponents - who were dominated on average last year, still outplayed their average (and thus were only bad not godawful) vs Andrew MacDonald.

AMac played only about 41% of his time vs Poor or Mediocre opponents. Unfortunately, he didn't play well vs these guys either, which is why his #s look so poor.

Here's this year:

Amac vs Poor Opponents: Average Corsi of these opponents: 43.5% (Terrible). Actual vs AMac: 54.5%
Amac vs Mediocre Opponents: Average Corsi of these opponents: 48.3% (Meh): Actual vs AMac: 59.0%
AMac vs Good Opponents: Average Corsi of these opponents: 51.2% (Good): Actual vs AMac: 59.7%
AMac vs Elite Opponents: Average Corsi of these opponents: 56.7% (elite): Actual vs AMac: 59.9%

This is even worse - Even bad opponents are dominating the ice with AMac on the ice! Presumably the play of poor and mediocre players should get not so dominant (these are bad players after all) but still - again this poses strong evidence that AMac's performance isn't due to not being a first pair defender as much as AMac kind of hasn't been a good defender at all this year.

Columbus is a better ES team, too... bet they'll go on a run in a bit.
- Tomahawk

Rule of thumb: Somebody's always gotta be in the lottery, and sometimes, it's your favorite team when you least expect it

The 2014-15 Flyers...it's simple. Either Read and Simmonds and Couturier start scoring at ES, and the PK gets better, or they pick in the Top 5.

Giroux and Voracek are gonna cool off, but if they remain healthy, they're gonna do what they're gonna do

The goaltending's been fine -- giving better than they've gotten

The defense has some softness, but they move the puck better than they have in years

But if six forwards don't raise their games, and in some cases significantly, none of that will matter. They'll be a lottery team if Read, Simmonds and Couturier don't start doing more -- and it won't be easy, because if you keep dressing dead weight, you keep cutting your margin for error

I agree with the should be benched, but VDV, Vinny, and Umberger seem to find ways to play anyway.

Based on Laughton's success up here, I would get Leier up here and see what he could do. Laughton's speed has made him noticeable and I think Leier's could do the same.

Schenn/Giroux/Voracek
Raffl/Laughton/Simmonds
Read/Bellemare/Leier
?/Couturier/Rinaldo

At least the first three lines have the speed to compete.
- ManCity

I'd want Leier up here also, if he's NHL ready, and can help the team. But I wouldn't subject a young player to the current state of this team and rush him to the NHL if he's not ready.

I agree with the should be benched, but VDV, Vinny, and Umberger seem to find ways to play anyway.

Based on Laughton's success up here, I would get Leier up here and see what he could do. Laughton's speed has made him noticeable and I think Leier's could do the same.

Schenn/Giroux/Voracek
Raffl/Laughton/Simmonds
Read/Bellemare/Leier
?/Couturier/Rinaldo

At least the first three lines have the speed to compete.
- ManCity

Anythings worth a shot at this point

I think you blatantly ignored the part of the article that touched on a core component on which you're trying to pass off as a flaw. Let me paste it in here to test your reading comprehension:

I divided opponents up into four categories:
Poor Opponents (sub 47% Corsi players):
Mediocre Opponents (Corsi between 47% and 49.5%)
Good Opponents (Corsi between 49.5% and 53%)
Elite Opponents (Corsi above 53%)


- flyers20032002

I didn't ignore anything. The rating system he used to rate opponents, is poor due to the same flaw. The flaw of false data in Corsi. You can't get away from it. Any player assessment using Corsi is flawed by the false data. Making it unreliable. There is no way around it. You can read those numbers over and over. Can't change that. It's impossible. And that's the key to Corsi and understanding it properly. Which you've yet to address or refute. But I don't expect you to, because it's impossible to remove it from the equation.

Especially with the way this current team is playing, you want to use Corsi to look at any player on this team?

You're entire post is team numbers of the opposition against Andrew MacDonald. I guess he was the only player out there.

I think you blatantly ignored the part of the article that touched on a core component on which you're trying to pass off as a flaw. Let me paste it in here to test your reading comprehension:

I divided opponents up into four categories:
Poor Opponents (sub 47% Corsi players):
Mediocre Opponents (Corsi between 47% and 49.5%)
Good Opponents (Corsi between 49.5% and 53%)
Elite Opponents (Corsi above 53%)

Here's last year:

Amac vs Poor Opponents: Average Corsi of these opponents: 44% (Terrible). Actual vs AMac: 47%
Amac vs Mediocre Opponents: Average Corsi of these opponents: 48.5% (Meh): Actual vs AMac: 53.2%
AMac vs Good Opponents: Average Corsi of these opponents: 51.1% (Good): Actual vs AMac: 54%
AMac vs Elite Opponents: Average Corsi of these opponents: 56.5% (elite): Actual vs AMac: 58.2%

AMac indeed did fare poorly vs top competition - 58.2% Corsi is incredibly great play by those opponents and horrible play by the Isles. And good opponents similarly outperformed their average performances vs Amac - instead of just barely outperforming the Isles as they usually would have, they strongly won the possession battle vs AMac.

And here's the problem: even BAD opponents are outperforming their averages against Amac! Mediocre players, who usually lose the possession battle, performed nearly as well as the good opponents and clearly won the battle to get into our own zone. And the Crappy opponents - who were dominated on average last year, still outplayed their average (and thus were only bad not godawful) vs Andrew MacDonald.

AMac played only about 41% of his time vs Poor or Mediocre opponents. Unfortunately, he didn't play well vs these guys either, which is why his #s look so poor.

Here's this year:

Amac vs Poor Opponents: Average Corsi of these opponents: 43.5% (Terrible). Actual vs AMac: 54.5%
Amac vs Mediocre Opponents: Average Corsi of these opponents: 48.3% (Meh): Actual vs AMac: 59.0%
AMac vs Good Opponents: Average Corsi of these opponents: 51.2% (Good): Actual vs AMac: 59.7%
AMac vs Elite Opponents: Average Corsi of these opponents: 56.7% (elite): Actual vs AMac: 59.9%

This is even worse - Even bad opponents are dominating the ice with AMac on the ice! Presumably the play of poor and mediocre players should get not so dominant (these are bad players after all) but still - again this poses strong evidence that AMac's performance isn't due to not being a first pair defender as much as AMac kind of hasn't been a good defender at all this year.
- flyers20032002

I showed him that in the summer. He responded that the 20 odd games he'd seen of amac were more valuable than the years I'd watched him, because he knows all. Don't waste your time, just enjoy the futility when amac plays.

I didn't ignore anything. The rating system he used to rate opponents, is poor due to the same flaw. The flaw of false data in Corsi. You can't get away from it. Any player assessment using Corsi is flawed by the false data. Making it unreliable. There is no way around it. You can read those numbers over and over. Can't change that. It's impossible. And that's the key to Corsi and understanding it properly. Which you've yet to address or refute. But I don't expect you to, because it's impossible to remove it from the equation.

Especially with the way this current team is playing, you want to use Corsi to look at any player on this team?

You're entire post is team numbers of the opposition against Andrew MacDonald. I guess he was the only player out there.
- MJL

Well Voracek and Giroux's Corsi are the best on the team and they're playing the best out of any other Flyers player so there's something to it. Umberger and VLC, the 2 players you agree are terrible all year long, are worst on the team. Amac shortly after them. So again, there's something to it and you shouldn't disregard the statistic altogether.

Anythings worth a shot at this point
- BiggE

Exactly -- no reason to keep getting your head bashed in with the same guys who you know, more likely than not, are the reason you are getting your head bashed in

There are limits to what can be done. We all know them. But that doesn't mean you should do nothing. You have to make moves that are able to be made, because what you have doesn't work

I showed him that in the summer. He responded that the 20 odd games he'd seen of amac were more valuable than the years I'd watched him, because he knows all. Don't waste your time, just enjoy the futility when amac plays.
- Isles_since_6

Pretty amazing that you could show me statistical data from the current season, last Summer.

Pretty amazing that you could show me statistical data from the current season, last Summer.
- MJL

you're a stubborn one, did you miss the section of that post where all the info from last year was in it? Yeah, that info. The info I posted for you that you disregarded. I'm loving this year, how you feeling about it?

Well Voracek and Giroux's Corsi are the best on the team and they're playing the best out of any other Flyers player so there's something to it. Umberger and VLC, the 2 players you agree are terrible all year long, are worst on the team. Amac shortly after them. So again, there's something to it and you shouldn't disregard the statistic altogether.
- rangerdanger94

I don't disregard it altogether. It's just not reliable. Anyone who understands Corsi knows that it's not black and white. That sometimes a good player on a bad team can have bad Corsi numbers. And sometimes a bad player on a good team can have good Corsi numbers.

I don't disregard it altogether. It's just not reliable. Anyone who understands Corsi knows that it's not black and white. That sometimes a good player on a bad team can have bad Corsi numbers. And sometimes a bad player on a good team can have good Corsi numbers.
- MJL

sure, that info isn't black and white at all, on average, it's usually a pretty good indication of what you see on the ice but it's not perfect. So now that you've seen another 20 games of amac, still convinced he's a worthwhile addition? because that contract is going to make him untradeable. I hope you're happy with him, you've got some time left to enjoy it.

you're a stubborn one, did you miss the section of that post where all the info from last year was in it? Yeah, that info. The info I posted for you that you disregarded. I'm loving this year, how you feeling about it?
- Isles_since_6

I'm just fooling with you there, and trying to be humorous. I'm not happy with the current state of the team, but I'm glad MacDonald is a Flyer. I'm more used to the Flyers being a top team and the Islanders being a bottom feeder year after year. I'm impressed with your team. I think they have a strong future there.

sure, that info isn't black and white at all, on average, it's usually a pretty good indication of what you see on the ice but it's not perfect. So now that you've seen another 20 games of amac, still convinced he's a worthwhile addition? because that contract is going to make him untradeable. I hope you're happy with him, you've got some time left to enjoy it.
- Isles_since_6

You're close to what it can tell you. It can tell you what happened on the ice. But it can't tell you why it happened. That takes analysis. Contract doesn't make him untradeable. I don't want to trade him anyway.

Flyers must want Macdavid

I'm just fooling with you there, and trying to be humorous. I'm not happy with the current state of the team, but I'm glad MacDonald is a Flyer. I'm more used to the Flyers being a top team and the Islanders being a bottom feeder year after year. I'm impressed with your team. I think they have a strong future there.
- MJL

Timmo was a huge loss for you guys. Lot of money tied in up streit and amac. I think you've got far more value in streit even given the age difference between the two players.

Flyers must want Macdavid
- Winning

I heard he saw Cherry Hill on a map once.