ok my bad... i just skimmed through a few old articles on the subject... thought i remembered something about him asking to be traded... well thats even worse now.. what in the (frank)
- JoeRussomanno

Nope. He said he was blindsided by the trade when Hextall asked him to waive his clause. He agreed to do so because he figured if he wasn't wanted, he wasn't staying.

Maybe they should start drinking before the games?
- BiggE

I know I'm gonna have to...

Hartnell was apparently shocked he got moved.
- wolfhounds

glad to see hextall dove in and got his traditional bad flyers gm move out of the way early

This most disturbing to me about this season is the fact that Couturier, Read and Simmonds (after his start) are literally useless right now.

Couturier and Read are not playing a good 2 way game and have been out for the majority of PP goals against.

Simmonds is not playing his brand of hockey which is a solid power forward..

I know people will point to VL and Umby but come on they are not the core forwards on this team regardless of what their contracts state.

Those 3 players I listed are the biggest disappointment so far and they either need to work out of it or something more drastic has to happen.


The other thing I don't understand is how soft this team is to play against. Rinaldo is the only physical player actually playing physically and their are people here that feel he is the biggest problem they have and he should be gone. Take him out of the lineup and their is 0% physical play on this team right now. I would have no problems with benching 1 of Vl or Umberger and bringing Rosehill up for a few games so at least their is someone out there with Rinaldo that isn't just bending over and taking it from other teams.

It's very possible. Hextall deserves blame, too. He was in the front office when they traded two relatively high picks for and then signed MacDonald to a huge contract. He was the GM when they traded Hartnell for Umberger.
- Jsaquella

MacDonald is not the problem. He's a quality defenseman that the team needed. It added a mobile two way 2nd pair defenseman. For now and for the future. None of the Flyers current defenseman are good enough individually to play this team out of this hole. Nor should they be expected to. In a team situation as dyfunctional as it is right now, defenseman are not going to look good.

Looks like Vinny/Umberger buyout next season. Total hit would be around 4 mill, add Pronger to LTIR and that leaves the Flyers with 11 mill in cap space for 7 players.

Nope. He said he was blindsided by the trade when Hextall asked him to waive his clause. He agreed to do so because he figured if he wasn't wanted, he wasn't staying.
- Jsaquella

im just completely baffled by this move i inow hartnell had a bit of a down year last year but miving him for umberger was completely stupid

They could have Babcock now and not be a lot better. It's not as simple as replacing the coach.
- Jsaquella

For sure, but what I am saying is just start over next year. Get rid of what you can, give your new coach a draft to work with GM and scouts.
Babcock gets a lot out of that Detroit team.
God...I hope he doesn't end up in Toronto. Their fans think he is, but then again they think everyone wants to go there

Grossmann's possession numbers are incredibly bad for a guy who gets to play with Streit most of the time. When is he going to get benched? Every once in a while he'll pick a nice shot, but in between there are hundreds of inaccurate passes, failed clears, unforced turnovers and icings.

You can't expect much secondary scoring out of this team when their best offensive dman has to carry around an anchor.

This most disturbing to me about this season is the fact that Couturier, Read and Simmonds (after his start) are literally useless right now.

Couturier and Read are not playing a good 2 way game and have been out for the majority of PP goals against.

Simmonds is not playing his brand of hockey which is a solid power forward..

I know people will point to VL and Umby but come on they are not the core forwards on this team regardless of what their contracts state.

Those 3 players I listed are the biggest disappointment so far and they either need to work out of it or something more drastic has to happen.
- opeth_pa

The biggest disappointments I have are Read and Couturier. I didn't have high expectations for Lecavalier, was hoping Umberger could be a solid 3rd liner & help on the PK, so their fall is not exactly that staggering to me.

But Couturier and Read have been bad. Read for much of the season and Couturier for the last 7-10 games or so. Simmonds, too has not really done much to stand out, and he's usually a guy that brings effort and energy that is noticeable, even if he's not scoring.

This most disturbing to me about this season is the fact that Couturier, Read and Simmonds (after his start) are literally useless right now.

Couturier and Read are not playing a good 2 way game and have been out for the majority of PP goals against.

Simmonds is not playing his brand of hockey which is a solid power forward..

I know people will point to VL and Umby but come on they are not the core forwards on this team regardless of what their contracts state.

Those 3 players I listed are the biggest disappointment so far and they either need to work out of it or something more drastic has to happen.
- opeth_pa

I agree. Umberger can be moved to the 4th line, and Lecavalier can be scratched. They are certainly part of the reason this team is in this hole, but far from the biggest. The players you named, especially Read and Couturier are far bigger reasons. The Couturier-Read tandem has been a strength of the team. Able to play against top lines, and drive play towards O zone finishes. As well as putting up points. And also on the PK. None of that is happening right now. And it's killing this team.

This most disturbing to me about this season is the fact that Couturier, Read and Simmonds (after his start) are literally useless right now.

Couturier and Read are not playing a good 2 way game and have been out for the majority of PP goals against.

Simmonds is not playing his brand of hockey which is a solid power forward..

I know people will point to VL and Umby but come on they are not the core forwards on this team regardless of what their contracts state.

Those 3 players I listed are the biggest disappointment so far and they either need to work out of it or something more drastic has to happen.
- opeth_pa

I think Simmonds has worked hard the last few games. He shows emotion out there, and he seems to be working well with Laughton. They both bring an edge.
Couturier and Read's lack of production has killed this team.
I am listening to offers for anyone of those two

Grossmann's possession numbers are incredibly bad for a guy who gets to play with Streit most of the time. When is he going to get benched? Every once in a while he'll pick a nice shot, but in between there are hundreds of inaccurate passes, failed clears, unforced turnovers and icings.

You can't expect much secondary scoring out of this team when their best offensive dman has to carry around an anchor.
- Feanor

Grossmann is one of the last players you'd think about benching. Those possession numbers are not Grossmann's stats, they are team stats. You don't judge a player like Grossmann with Corsi or Fenwick.

I think Simmonds has worked hard the last few games. He shows emotion out there, and he seems to be working well with Laughton. They both bring an edge.
Couturier and Read's lack of production has killed this team.
I am listening to offers for anyone of those two
- 3flyerkids

That would be a foolish panic move.

im just completely baffled by this move i inow hartnell had a bit of a down year last year but miving him for umberger was completely stupid
- JoeRussomanno

Scott hartnell 5G 9A (50 pt pace)

RJ umberger 1G 2A (10 pt pace)

Kekalainen was about to amnesty umberger until hextal came running offering Hartnell. He was glad to get anything in return and not have to eat all that money for nothing

im just completely baffled by this move i inow hartnell had a bit of a down year last year but miving him for umberger was completely stupid
- JoeRussomanno

My guess?

1. Hextall knew he needed more cap flexibility when it came to the summer that Voracek, Couturier, Schenn & Coburn need to be re-signed.

2. Hextall figured that Schenn, Couturier and Read could up their games and assume Hartnell's scoring and Umberger could be a solid guy who could lessen their defensive roles.

3. Berube and Hartnell clashed, and the contract mess combined with age made him the easiest guy to move.

Scott hartnell 5G 9A (50 pt pace)

RJ umberger 1G 2A (10 pt pace)

Kekalainen was about to amnesty umberger until hextal came running offering Hartnell. He was glad to get anything in return and not have to eat all that money for nothing
- FourFeathers773

Yea I just feel like I figured out Santa claus isn't real all over again ... Was under the misconception hartnell asked for a trade and forced their hand... Mayan I'm worried about hextall now

My guess?

1. Hextall knew he needed more cap flexibility when it came to the summer that Voracek, Couturier, Schenn & Coburn need to be re-signed.

2. Hextall figured that Schenn, Couturier and Read could up their games and assume Hartnell's scoring and Umberger could be a solid guy who could lessen their defensive roles.

3. Berube and Hartnell clashed, and the contract mess combined with age made him the easiest guy to move.
- Jsaquella

The trade made sense in a lot of ways. Nobody expected Umberger to be this bad offensively. Not even the Flyers.

Yea I just feel like I figured out Santa claus isn't real all over again ... Was under the misconception hartnell asked for a trade and forced their hand... Mayan I'm worried about hextall now
- JoeRussomanno

I was wondering how long that would take.

My guess?

1. Hextall knew he needed more cap flexibility when it came to the summer that Voracek, Couturier, Schenn & Coburn need to be re-signed.

2. Hextall figured that Schenn, Couturier and Read could up their games and assume Hartnell's scoring and Umberger could be a solid guy who could lessen their defensive roles.

3. Berube and Hartnell clashed, and the contract mess combined with age made him the easiest guy to move.
- Jsaquella

Still could've got A better return ... Geezers umberger been in the downswing for a while

My guess?

1. Hextall knew he needed more cap flexibility when it came to the summer that Voracek, Couturier, Schenn & Coburn need to be re-signed.

2. Hextall figured that Schenn, Couturier and Read could up their games and assume Hartnell's scoring and Umberger could be a solid guy who could lessen their defensive roles.

3. Berube and Hartnell clashed, and the contract mess combined with age made him the easiest guy to move.
- Jsaquella

I can't believe hextall could ever have anticipated how bad umberger would play this year. Complete meltdown.

Still could've got A better return ... Geezers umberger been in the downswing for a while
- JoeRussomanno

I expected him to be able to provide 10-15 goals and be a solid defensive guy. So far he's been pretty bad at all aspects of the game. He's been mediocre defensively, his play without the puck has been bleh, the apparent effort has been poor.

I expected him to be able to provide 10-15 goals and be a solid defensive guy. So far he's been pretty bad at all aspects of the game. He's been mediocre defensively, his play without the puck has been bleh, the apparent effort has been poor.
- Jsaquella

I expected the same too but even still, hartnell has been more than that over the years still a losing deal... But I guess with all the dumb homer signings something had to give.

I can't believe hextall could ever have anticipated how bad umberger would play this year. Complete meltdown.
- Hextall271

A lot of the stats geeks warned that Umberger was going to be bad. His possession numbers were awful, and while he did score 18 goals, he also enjoyed his highest shooting percentage in 4 or 5 years last season.

If you don't like advanced stats, there were the plentiful rumors that Columbus was seriously considering using a compliance buy out on Umberger before the Flyers made the trade.

Hextall definitely should have had some sense of caveat emptor when considering the trade.

I say the Flyers hire Jeff Gillooly as an adviser, and maybe he can arrange some injuries for certain players, who then can be long term injured
- twpguy

Have the mumps been contained out west...maybe a 'sickness' can relegate a few players to the press box?