Nothing delusional. You're just assuming incorrectly that they Blue Jackets were definitely going to buy him out. You also assumed that Hextall could've gotten pick and prospects instead. I haven't said that in hindsight, it's not a bad trade. I'm only looking at the situation at the time, and why I think it made sense is some ways. And why Hextall may have thought it made sense at the time. It's called being objective.
- MJL

Sportsnet, tsn, and the Columbus media all say umberger is going to be bought out if not traded

What are you expecting, a sworn statement from kekalainen committing to it?

Just accept it and move on. Hextall got fleeced paying full price on a toxic player and contract

The hardest thing for me is that at the root of all this: this is for the most part the same team as last year.

You still have the core of G, Jake, Simmonds, Read, Couturier, the Schenns, Mason, Sreit. You can't tell me that Umberger, Del Zotto, and Shultz alone could phuck things up this bad?

Is Berube getting the most out of this team? Very debatable. I'll admit I was on the record that firing him wouldn't make much of a difference. Now, I don't know?

I just keep telling myself that these are professional athletes who need to man up and play their way out of this. To see guys aside from G, Voracek, and Mason take drastic steps backwards from just a year ago is mind boggling to me.
- Pelle31Forever

Other then those few players, it's been a complete collapse. You're right, it is mind boggling.

Sportsnet, tsn, and the Columbus media all say umberger is going to be bought out if not traded

What are you expecting, a sworn statement from kekalainen committing to it?

Just accept it and move on. Hextall got fleeced paying full price on a toxic player and contract
- FourFeathers773

They all speculated that he could be bought out. Not hard to get. Until he is actually bought out, nobody outside of the organization knows. Again, all about context. I'm not arguing or debating the results of the trade. I'm simply objectively looking at the thinking behind making the trade at the time. I'm sure you or I, and anybody else would make a great GM, if we can look at everything in hindsight.

I just keep telling myself that these are professional athletes who need to man up and play their way out of this. To see guys aside from G, Voracek, and Mason take drastic steps backwards from just a year ago is mind boggling to me.
- Pelle31Forever

It's not really mind boggling to me.

You have two players in Umberger and Lecavalier who have been getting top-9 minutes but playing like average 4th liners. You then have two stud 1st line players on one line in Voracek and Giroux. You're basically praying the other team doesnt have a line/d-pair to shut down your 1st, and that the other 3 lines will do just enough to win.

I've been saying since the summer you need to split Giroux and Voracek up. Now it couldn't be more obvious this needs to be done. The two of them scoring a bunch is nice and all, but we're a sub-500 hockey club. Conclusion? It's not working.

Seriously time to start considering trading Coburn, Read, and maybe even Grossman or Schenn. Get value for these parts while we can. None of those 3 guys are going to be apart of a solution here by the time Hextall finally gets an opportunity to sort this mess out. We obviously have some time before we may have to do this, but these are moves we at least need to start considering.

As much as I'd love to keep Coburn, we gave way too much of his money to AndyMac (who we are stuck with IMO). We would certainly get a healthy return for a player of his caliber. Ditto Matt Read. Both players would be huge additions to contending teams. A guy like Grossman may only net us some draft picks, but we'll get good value and it will clear us some cap space this summer.

This obviously doesn't help the whole Umberger/Lecavalier problem, but it's a start.
- mochoson

What would you trade Coburn for? Not looking for specific names, but just to get a feel for what kind of return you'd be looking for.

- mydoglicks

Sportsnet, tsn, and the Columbus media all say umberger is going to be bought out if not traded

What are you expecting, a sworn statement from kekalainen committing to it?

Just accept it and move on. Hextall got fleeced paying full price on a toxic player and contract
- FourFeathers773

He clearly wasn't going to be bought out! It was just a rumor floated out there to increase his value!

They all speculated that he could be bought out. Not hard to get. Until he is actually bought out, nobody outside of the organization knows. Again, all about context. I'm not arguing or debating the results of the trade. I'm simply objectively looking at the thinking behind making the trade at the time. I'm sure you or I, and anybody else would make a great GM, if we can look at everything in hindsight.
- MJL

Not even hindsight, hextall was laughed at the second that trade was made. Nobody needed to look into the future to know that was a bad trade

Ok, moving right along with the forwards:

Giroux A- : his play has been very good. Sadly it's not enough to carry this team.

Voracek A+ : Hands down, he's been the best player on this team and arguably the best player in the league so far.

B. Schenn B: Has looked good on the top line and shows flashes of near greatness. However he still disappears for long stretches in games.

Simmonds C: Had a great start, but has really tailed off. His play at ES has simply not been good enough

Laughton Incomplete: Too small a sample size for a grade, but the kid has looked very good so far

Raffl C+: overall he's been fine.

Read D-: I almost hope he's nursing some kind of injury, because he has looked horrible.

Couturier D: In the past, when he wasn't scoring, he was at least at beast on the PK. This year, especially recently, not so much. Needs to get his butt in gear.

Umberger F: Has been awful in every facet of the game. Should not be in the lineup. At this point Jay Rosehill would be an upgrade over him.

VLC F: Horrible, just absolutely horrible. If he had any pride, he'd retire.

Bellemare C: Been ok, has slowed down over the last few weeks which I expected as he has never before played such a condensed schedule.

Rinaldo C: He is what he is. A 4th line energy guy with no skill whatsover. Until recently he seemed to be cutting back on the stupid penalties, the last few games though he's had a relapse. In his defense, at least he's shown a pulse.

VDV C-: An AHL player who has no business playing in an NHL lineup. But, at least he tries hard, I guess.

General Custer trying to fend off all the negativity with his blind homerism.

He clearly wasn't going to be bought out! It was just a rumor floated out there to increase his value!
- PhillySportsGuy

That damn kekalainen tradecraft

They all speculated that he could be bought out. Not hard to get. Until he is actually bought out, nobody outside of the organization knows. Again, all about context. I'm not arguing or debating the results of the trade. I'm simply objectively looking at the thinking behind making the trade at the time. I'm sure you or I, and anybody else would make a great GM, if we can look at everything in hindsight.
- MJL

I still have no problem with the Umberger trade. There's not doubt in my mind that, at worst, he could be a solid 3rd liner on this team. I don't think his tank is quite THAT empty.

Not even hindsight, hextall was laughed at the second that trade was made. Nobody needed to look into the future to know that was a bad trade
- FourFeathers773

You're the spokesman for everybody? The trade was widely discussed on here when it was made. Everybody didn't immediately label it a bad trade.

Ok, moving right along with the forwards:

Giroux A- : his play has been very good. Sadly it's not enough to carry this team.

Voracek A+ : Hands down, he's been the best player on this team and arguably the best player in the league so far.

B. Schenn B: Has looked good on the top line and shows flashes of near greatness. However he still disappears for long stretches in games.

Simmonds C: Had a great start, but has really tailed off. His play at ES has simply not been good enough

Laughton Incomplete: Too small a sample size for a grade, but the kid has looked very good so far

Raffl C+: overall he's been fine.

Read D-: I almost hope he's nursing some kind of injury, because he has looked horrible.

Couturier D: In the past, when he wasn't scoring, he was at least at beast on the PK. This year, especially recently, not so much. Needs to get his butt in gear.

Umberger F: Has been awful in every facet of the game. Should not be in the lineup. At this point Jay Rosehill would be an upgrade over him.

VLC F: Horrible, just absolutely horrible. If he had any pride, he'd retire.

Bellemare C: Been ok, has slowed down over the last few weeks which I expected as he has never before played such a condensed schedule.

Rinaldo C: He is what he is. A 4th line energy guy with no skill whatsover. Until recently he seemed to be cutting back on the stupid penalties, the last few games though he's had a relapse. In his defense, at least he's shown a pulse.

VDV C-: An AHL player who has no business playing in an NHL lineup. But, at least he tries hard, I guess.
- BiggE

I think Raffls been pretty good when he's played.

He clearly wasn't going to be bought out! It was just a rumor floated out there to increase his value!
- PhillySportsGuy

What are you trying to do, put an end to today's 12 page post-a-thon?

You've got some nerve.

I still have no problem with the Umberger trade. There's not doubt in my mind that, at worst, he could be a solid 3rd liner on this team. I don't think his tank is quite THAT empty.
- mochoson

I hope you're right. I understood why the trade was made at the time. It certainly doesn't look good right now. I still hold out some hope that he can turn it around. It may be false hope, but hope nonetheless.

He clearly wasn't going to be bought out! It was just a rumor floated out there to increase his value!
- PhillySportsGuy

MacDonald is not the problem. He's a quality defenseman that the team needed. It added a mobile two way 2nd pair defenseman. For now and for the future. None of the Flyers current defenseman are good enough individually to play this team out of this hole. Nor should they be expected to. In a team situation as dyfunctional as it is right now, defenseman are not going to look good.
- MJL

MacDonald by far the Flyers worst starting defenseman since his arrival at the trade deadline. He's one of the single worst defenseman in the NHL. Looks like a puck mover, quacks like a puck mover, puts up Douglas Murray esque results.

One of the biggest reasons they spend so much time in their own zone is Amac's inability to properly defend in the neutral zone. He's got the most generous gap in the neutral zone I've ever seen, even when the Flyers have numbers back he refuses to challenge attacking forwards.

Grossmann is one of the last players you'd think about benching. Those possession numbers are not Grossmann's stats, they are team stats. You don't judge a player like Grossmann with Corsi or Fenwick.

Yes you do. Grossmann isn't magically exempt from stat evaluations because of his style of play. The opposition gets more scoring chances with Grossmann on the ice. That is a problem. Full stop.

Teammates undoubtedly have an influence, but considering that his most common defense partner in Mark Streit is light years ahead of him at 5v5, I think Grossmann can thank his lucky stars that his numbers aren't worse.

Grossmann doesn't have the puck skill to move play up ice consistently, his lack of footspeed leaves him terrified of getting beat wide, and he is way overrated in his own zone.

At best, he is a 3rd pairing guy on a good team.

General Custer trying to fend off all the negativity with his blind homerism.


- PLindbergh31

Injuns? I don't see any injuns!

You're the spokesman for everybody? The trade was widely discussed on here when it was made. Everybody didn't immediately label it a bad trade.
- MJL

Heres an idea: move Giroux back to the wing.

Schenn-Laughton-Giroux
Raffl-Couturier-Voracek
Read-Bellemare-Simmonds
Umberger-Lecavalier-Rinaldo

Anybody wanna try and argue this will somehow yield WORSE results then the garbage we've witnessed so far?

(Please spare me the "Giroux is too good not to play center" nonsense)

Ok, moving right along with the forwards:

Giroux A- : his play has been very good. Sadly it's not enough to carry this team.

Voracek A+ : Hands down, he's been the best player on this team and arguably the best player in the league so far.

B. Schenn B: Has looked good on the top line and shows flashes of near greatness. However he still disappears for long stretches in games.

Simmonds C: Had a great start, but has really tailed off. His play at ES has simply not been good enough

Laughton Incomplete: Too small a sample size for a grade, but the kid has looked very good so far

Raffl C+: overall he's been fine.

Read D-: I almost hope he's nursing some kind of injury, because he has looked horrible.

Couturier D: In the past, when he wasn't scoring, he was at least at beast on the PK. This year, especially recently, not so much. Needs to get his butt in gear.

Umberger F: Has been awful in every facet of the game. Should not be in the lineup. At this point Jay Rosehill would be an upgrade over him.

VLC F: Horrible, just absolutely horrible. If he had any pride, he'd retire.

Bellemare C: Been ok, has slowed down over the last few weeks which I expected as he has never before played such a condensed schedule.

Rinaldo C: He is what he is. A 4th line energy guy with no skill whatsover. Until recently he seemed to be cutting back on the stupid penalties, the last few games though he's had a relapse. In his defense, at least he's shown a pulse.

VDV C-: An AHL player who has no business playing in an NHL lineup. But, at least he tries hard, I guess.
- BiggE

Pretty much agree with this and the other post although I'd say Giroux should be an A only cause there's room for improvement always and Rinaldo taking dumb penalties lately probably stems from frustration and the fact he plays with his heart on his sleeve.

What are you trying to do, put an end to today's 12 page post-a-thon?

You've got some nerve.
- tangent_man

I wouldn't dream of it

Heres an idea: move Giroux back to the wing.

Schenn-Laughton-Giroux
Raffl-Couturier-Voracek
Read-Bellemare-Simmonds
Umberger-Lecavalier-Rinaldo

Anybody wanna try and argue this will somehow yield WORSE results then the garbage we've witnessed so far?

(Please spare me the "Giroux is too good not to play center" nonsense)
- mochoson

At this point I'd try anything. Though I'd replace Umberger and VLC with VDV and Rosehill. I don't want to see either of those 2 in the lineup again.