Right now, if it was up to me, Umberger would go to the 4th line, and play on the PK. I would scratch Lecavalier, at least for a few games. I'd move Bellemare up to the top 9.
- MJL

I support this 1000%

Exactly. All this talk of "Couturier not growing offensively"......ughhhh, he's been glued to Matt Read's hip since he got here basically.

At what point has Couturier gotten the opportunities Brayden Schenn has offensively?
- mochoson

Schenn wasn't on the first line till this year... Not sure what you mean by all the opportunities... He's played his way up there and I've been pretty critical of him up until a few weeks ago

Coburn should get them a first rounder at the TDL.

I don't think a majority here would object, tbh.
- Marc D

I would do that. I wouldn't just trade him for the sake of trading him, but I would make him available. He could end up being the best available defenseman at TDL

Now that's some serious speed we desperately need
- mochoson

And see a simple move like that might be a catalyst for other guys... A lot of times it's about the mix and not so much the individual players

Heres an idea: move Giroux back to the wing.

Schenn-Laughton-Giroux
Raffl-Couturier-Voracek
Read-Bellemare-Simmonds
Umberger-Lecavalier-Rinaldo

Anybody wanna try and argue this will somehow yield WORSE results then the garbage we've witnessed so far?

(Please spare me the "Giroux is too good not to play center" nonsense)
- mochoson

They count on G for faceoffs a lot and he is doing well in this regard.

Schenn wasn't on the first line till this year... Not sure what you mean by all the opportunities... He's played his way up there and I've been pretty critical of him up until a few weeks ago
- JoeRussomanno

He had those great opportunities with Vinny as his LW and Briere as his RW.

Statements like he's one of the single worst defenseman in the NHL refutes itself. And disqualifies the source as being credible. Gap is a team function, not an individual player function.

Gapping is a team funciton, but MacDonald has been notoriously bad at his end of the bargain.

Goes back to his NYI days, you can find multiple authors who've broken down exactly whats wrong with MacDonald's neutral zone game including Justin Bourne of the Score and Kevin Christmann over at BSH. It's not a coincidence that NYI has suddenly turned into one of the leagues best 5v5 teams without their worst 5v5 defenseman dragging the team down.

Those stats aren't individual stats, they are team stats that are falsely attributed to a single player. Unless you think that a player on the ice is responsible for every single scoring chance against or for, when that player is on the ice. Whether you want to use scoring chances or shot differential, they are team numbers. And subject to a large percentage of false data when applied to individual players. Hockey is a team game.

No one is claiming that they are perfectly individual stats. Teammate influence is a widely talked about factor in chance and shot differentials.

Contextual and team elements in order of importance and their impact on the numbers.

1. Individual Talent
2. Quality of Teammate
3. Zone Starts
4. Quality of Competition

Claiming that these metrics don't apply to individual players contradicts half a decade of research. Over large samples, the individual player has the largest influence on his on ice results.

Schenn wasn't on the first line till this year... Not sure what you mean by all the opportunities... He's played his way up there and I've been pretty critical of him up until a few weeks ago
- JoeRussomanno

Deployment. Couturier is used in a high percentage of D zone starts, and has to play against top lines a lot. That's a roadblock for offensive success.

If we break up read and coots which is waaay overdue IMO, how bout this?

Raffl Giroux check
Schenn, coots, simmonds
Read Laughton vandevelveta
4th who cares

Deployment. Couturier is used in a high percentage of D zone starts, and has to play against top lines a lot. That's a roadblock for offensive success.
- MJL

Would you trade Couturier for Ryan Johansen?

He had those great opportunities with Vinny as his LW and Briere as his RW.
- PhillySportsGuy

And couturier has had some good line mates too

Would you trade Couturier for Ryan Johansen?
- rangerdanger94

I know his answer is no

Coburn should get them a first rounder at the TDL.

I don't think a majority here would object, tbh.
- Marc D

No way Coburn or any D on this team fetches you a 1st. Not even a team that is desperate for D help.

Coburn could get you a 2nd.....maybe

I know his answer is no
- JoeRussomanno

Ok, moving right along with the forwards:

Giroux A- : his play has been very good. Sadly it's not enough to carry this team.

Voracek A+ : Hands down, he's been the best player on this team and arguably the best player in the league so far.

B. Schenn B: Has looked good on the top line and shows flashes of near greatness. However he still disappears for long stretches in games.

Simmonds C: Had a great start, but has really tailed off. His play at ES has simply not been good enough

Laughton Incomplete: Too small a sample size for a grade, but the kid has looked very good so far

Raffl C+: overall he's been fine.

Read D-: I almost hope he's nursing some kind of injury, because he has looked horrible.

Couturier D: In the past, when he wasn't scoring, he was at least at beast on the PK. This year, especially recently, not so much. Needs to get his butt in gear.

Umberger F: Has been awful in every facet of the game. Should not be in the lineup. At this point Jay Rosehill would be an upgrade over him.

VLC F: Horrible, just absolutely horrible. If he had any pride, he'd retire.

Bellemare C: Been ok, has slowed down over the last few weeks which I expected as he has never before played such a condensed schedule.

Rinaldo C: He is what he is. A 4th line energy guy with no skill whatsover. Until recently he seemed to be cutting back on the stupid penalties, the last few games though he's had a relapse. In his defense, at least he's shown a pulse.

VDV C-: An AHL player who has no business playing in an NHL lineup. But, at least he tries hard, I guess.
- BiggE

I like your analysis, but

I would give Simmonds at least a B-. He shows some heart which not many others have.
I would create a new grade for Corpseburger .... Z-

Would you trade Couturier for Ryan Johansen?
- rangerdanger94

Yep!!!

Deployment. Couturier is used in a high percentage of D zone starts, and has to play against top lines a lot. That's a roadblock for offensive success.
- MJL

This true but he still fails to capitalize on scoring chances

Goes back to his NYI days, you can find multiple authors who've broken down exactly whats wrong with MacDonald's neutral zone game including Justin Bourne of the Score and Kevin Christmann over at BSH. It's not a coincidence that NYI has suddenly turned into one of the leagues best 5v5 teams without their worst 5v5 defenseman dragging the team down.


- AndrewD

I've seen all the articles. All poorly written with the data from questionable sources. Not to mention the zone entry stats are badly flawed. You're making an obvious biased assumption that the reason the Islanders are playing better is because MacDonald is not not there. They made a couple of good moves to replace the loss of MacDonald. Who knows if the results would've been the same if MacDonald was still there.

No one is claiming that they are perfectly individual stats. Teammate influence is a widely talked about factor in chance and shot differentials.

Contextual and team elements in order of importance and their impact on the numbers.

1. Individual Talent
2. Quality of Teammate
3. Zone Starts
4. Quality of Competition

Claiming that these metrics don't apply to individual players contradicts half a decade of research. Over large samples, the individual player has the largest influence on his on ice results.
- AndrewD

It's impossible for the individual player to have the largest influence on his on ice results. Just by the very fact that he is one of 5 skaters. Those stats cannot do what you think they can do. They can only tell you what happens when a player is on the ice. They cannot tell you is responsible. The false data is far too high to come a credible conclusion on any player. Hockey is a team game. It's all about the data. Garbage in, garbage out.

In regards to Couturier the biggest thing I'd love to see him work on in the next off season is his skating and foot speed.

With the number of turnovers he creates with his d skill and reach he should be getting way more breakaways and odd man rushes. Right now the back checkers catch up and the play fizzles out before it gets started.

Would you trade Couturier for Ryan Johansen?
- rangerdanger94

Yes.

This true but he still fails to capitalize on scoring chances
- JoeRussomanno

I think he could finish better on his offensive chances. But overall before this year, he has put up solid point totals.

Coburn should get them a first rounder at the TDL.

I don't think a majority here would object, tbh.
- Marc D

coby could also be used to move VL or RJ if either of those 2 would waive. not desirable, but settling for a lower pick and gaining cap space might be as valuable. tough call

And couturier has had some good line mates too
- JoeRussomanno

Read has been a good player up until this season. Couturier hasn't gotten great wingers, but Read is a nice player. I think Couturiers problem has more to do with his usage over the years. I thought the Flyers could have done a better job over the summer of establishing more line balance and giving Couts more offensive opportunities.

In regards to Couturier the biggest thing I'd love to see him work on in the next off season is his skating and foot speed.

With the number of turnovers he creates with his d skill and reach he should be getting way more breakaways and odd man rushes. Right now the back checkers catch up and the play fizzles out before it gets started.
- Marc D

if he can't make significant strides w/ his speed, he at least has to improve his balance. can't be slow and not strong on the puck.

Deployment. Couturier is used in a high percentage of D zone starts, and has to play against top lines a lot. That's a roadblock for offensive success.
- MJL

Totally agree!

Would you trade him for an young offensive winger?
Maybe Boedker?
Especially if Laughton continues to progress.