why not
- JoeRussomanno

Because Couturier is a better player that is going to get even stronger as he matures. He's still a baby.

I agree that the coach doesn't have a lot of options right now, but benching Bellemare is just silly. He's one of the few players that look like theyre giving any effort. Bench Umberger, he hasn't look like he's tried in a long time. Run with

Schenn-Giroux-Voracek
Bellemare-Laughton-Simmonds
Raffl-Couturier-Read
Vandevelde-Lecavalier-Rinaldo

Give the players who are actually trying the ice time. Forget about veteran status or whatever cause if you aren't even gonna try to play then how can you expect to play in this league?

Coburn spent the majority of his ice time with Timonen last year. 44's influence on the blue line was massive. Without him, the flyers poor depth on the blue line is even more exposed.



2013-2014 on ice results for the Flyers D

Coburn's most common partner this season has been MacDonald. Not surprising to see his on ice results go in the tank along with Amacs.
- AndrewD

I knew the pie charts, flow charts, test tubes, & wizardry would be next in the argument.

That only means certain guys can gel with others, & not with some.
Seriously, the Devils have used Salvador as a top pairing guy the last 2 complete seasons, team support & structure allowed them to compensate not having Scott Niedermayer anymore.
I don't think our defense is great, (as a whole unit), but I don't this its this bad either, I think a proper structure, (and players following it), can rectify things, maybe with a few alterations.

Certainly would have interest, but not for Couturier. And probably not for what they want in return. I'd assume they'd be looking for forward help, because they have some solid defenseman. I wouldn't trade Couturier, Laughton, or B Schenn for Boedker
- MJL

Maybe Laughton, both skate well, but only because we could use another threat on the wing.
And that's not a knock on Laughton, only we are a little center heavy again, & could use another wing threat.

Well said. You take a second pair defenseman, try and play him and use him like a top pair defenseman. On a poor 5 on 5 team, and then say hey, look at the numbers. He stinks! It's laughable.
- MJL

MacDonald has under performed against all levels of competition, in all manner of usage. http://hockey-graphs.com/...ntext-in-the-first-place/

I knew the pie charts, flow charts, test tubes, & wizardry would be next in the argument.

That only means certain guys can gel with others, & not with some.
Seriously, the Devils have used Salvador as a top pairing guy the last 2 complete seasons, team support & structure allowed them to compensate not having Scott Niedermayer anymore.
I don't think our defense is great, (as a whole unit), but I don't this its this bad either, I think a proper structure, (and players following it), can rectify things, maybe with a few alterations.
- puckhead17

Blasphemy! How the team as a unit is playing, has nothing to do with the statistical data applied to a defenseman. If a defenseman is under siege shift after shift, because the team as a whole isn't generating any forecheck or O zone attack time. Lacks any neutral zone pressure, and the opposition gets free skate after free skate through the neutral zone. Well that's because the defenseman on that side of the ice stinks, and he allowed a successful zone entry.

Blasphemy! How the team as a unit is playing, has nothing to do with the statistical data applied to a defenseman. If a defenseman is under siege shift after shift, because the team as a whole isn't generating any forecheck or O zone attack time. Lacks any neutral zone pressure, and the opposition gets free skate after free skate through the neutral zone. Well that's because the defenseman on that side of the ice stinks, and he allowed a successful zone entry.
- MJL

I'm sorry, that's kind of what I said, (was that meant for the other guy)?

I see a lot of people preaching stay the course. Which is fine. Its a young team. But when you hear about coaches ripping players, the GM barging in and ripping the team and players only meetings being held you'll excuse me if I don't entirely buy into the thought that Hextall is just going to sit around here.

MacDonald has under performed against all levels of competition, in all manner of usage. http://hockey-graphs.com/...ntext-in-the-first-place/
- AndrewD

They're trying to do something that is impossible to do. One player can't be isolated from his teammates. It's team data, not individual data. And I love how the author of the article linked inside of the article made up his own player rating system using the same flawed Corsi data. Laughable.

I can post links to articles also.

http://blogs.edmontonjour...-wrong-with-some-players/

Do you know what we have yet to see, in order to properly evaluate MacDonald as a player? We've yet to see the player placed in the right role, on a team that plays a solid overall team game, that supports the puck all over the ice, and plays strong team defense.
What do you think would happen with MacDonald's possession numbers if he was traded to the LA Kings, to replace Voynov?

I'm sorry, that's kind of what I said, (was that meant for the other guy)?
- puckhead17

I know, I was replying in agreement using some sarcasm.

I see a lot of people preaching stay the course. Which is fine. Its a young team. But when you hear about coaches ripping players, the GM barging in and ripping the team and players only meetings being held you'll excuse me if I don't entirely buy into the thought that Hextall is just going to sit around here.
- hereticpride

He wasn't a doormat as a player, I don't see him doing the same as a GM.
The Redwings retooled year after year with younger players, & they never tanked.

I know, I was replying in agreement using some sarcasm.
- MJL

Gotcha, I thought so.

Certainly would have interest, but not for Couturier. And probably not for what they want in return. I'd assume they'd be looking for forward help, because they have some solid defenseman. I wouldn't trade Couturier, Laughton, or B Schenn for Boedker
- MJL

If Coots were to be traded to the Coyotes the only justifiable returns are a top 10 pick or moving him in a package for OEL.

I see a lot of people preaching stay the course. Which is fine. Its a young team. But when you hear about coaches ripping players, the GM barging in and ripping the team and players only meetings being held you'll excuse me if I don't entirely buy into the thought that Hextall is just going to sit around here.
- hereticpride

Here's what I think. I don't think the current state of the team, is going to force Hextall into making a move. If anything, I think it's going to cause him to step back. I think he's going to have the mindset of only making a deal, if he would also make it if the team was winning right now. I think trading from a mindset of panic, or desperation is a bad time to be making deals.

Here's what I think. I don't think the current state of the team, is going to force Hextall into making a move. If anything, I think it's going to cause him to step back. I think he's going to have the mindset of only making a deal, if he would also make it if the team was winning right now. I think trading from a mindset of panic, or desperation is a bad time to be making deals.
- MJL

That doesn't explain his "F" word tirade last week, after only 20 games. What GM that wants to build with patience does that?

That doesn't explain his "F" word tirade last week, after only 20 games. What GM that wants to build with patience does that?
- puckhead17

A GM who thinks the current team isn't competing and should be a lot better.

They're trying to do something that is impossible to do. One player can't be isolated from his teammates. It's team data, not individual data.

I can post links to articles also.

http://blogs.edmontonjour...-wrong-with-some-players/
- MJL

Oh you're a David Staples fan...



He's been disproven time and time again, and isn't taken seriously by anyone. I'd love to continue this conversation, but beating my head against a brick wall would be more enjoyable.

MacDonald by far the Flyers worst starting defenseman since his arrival at the trade deadline. He's one of the single worst defenseman in the NHL. Looks like a puck mover, quacks like a puck mover, puts up Douglas Murray esque results.

One of the biggest reasons they spend so much time in their own zone is Amac's inability to properly defend in the neutral zone. He's got the most generous gap in the neutral zone I've ever seen, even when the Flyers have numbers back he refuses to challenge attacking forwards.



Yes you do. Grossmann isn't magically exempt from stat evaluations because of his style of play. The opposition gets more scoring chances with Grossmann on the ice. That is a problem. Full stop.

Teammates undoubtedly have an influence, but considering that his most common defense partner in Mark Streit is light years ahead of him at 5v5, I think Grossmann can thank his lucky stars that his numbers aren't worse.

Grossmann doesn't have the puck skill to move play up ice consistently, his lack of footspeed leaves him terrified of getting beat wide, and he is way overrated in his own zone.

At best, he is a 3rd pairing guy on a good team.


- AndrewD

Nice post, but you're wasting your breath on that one. His narrow personal perspective is the only valid truth he'll accept.

A GM who thinks the current team isn't competing and should be a lot better.
- MJL

I don't know if this market, (or ownership, fanbase), would allow him to be as patient as he wishes to be.

So, the team is bad, or at least underachieving. We cant blame the old GM, because he made some good moves. We cant blame the new GM, because despite the rampant rumors of a probable buyout, he had no idea how bad Umberger would be. We cant blame the coach, because he can only play the guys he has. Finally, when a player gets blamed, hes not the problem or isnt a core player.

Did I get it right?

Oh you're a David Staples fan...



He's been disproven time and time again, and isn't taken seriously by anyone. I'd love to continue this conversation, but beating my head against a brick wall would be more enjoyable.
- AndrewD

I'm not a David Staples fan. I'm a fan of logical well thought out premises.

Typical response from the analytics crowd, who can't handle when the obvious flaws are presented to them on the statistics that they hold so dearly. His theory hasn't been disproven by anyone. He's exactly right, and that's why the analytics crowd just brushes him off. That's all they can do.

Nice post, but you're wasting your breath on that one. His narrow personal perspective is the only valid truth he'll accept.
- Tomahawk

We've gone round and round on analytics for individual players. You've had plenty of opportunity to prove that my premises are incorrect. You weren't able to do it.

So, the team is bad, or at least underachieving. We cant blame the old GM, because he made some good moves. We cant blame the new GM, because despite the rampant rumors of a probable buyout, he had no idea how bad Umberger would be. We cant blame the coach, because he can only play the guys he has. Finally, when a player gets blamed, hes not the problem or isnt a core player.

Did I get it right?
- Jsaquella

Sounds about right.

So, the team is bad, or at least underachieving. We cant blame the old GM, because he made some good moves. We cant blame the new GM, because despite the rampant rumors of a probable buyout, he had no idea how bad Umberger would be. We cant blame the coach, because he can only play the guys he has. Finally, when a player gets blamed, hes not the problem or isnt a core player.

Did I get it right?
- Jsaquella

Not at all. All of them share in some of the blame. The problem comes when they get blamed for everything they've done. And the good that they've done is completely ignored. Such as the criticism you offer towards Berube. Which is pretty much every move is the wrong move.

Nice post, but you're wasting your breath on that one. His narrow personal perspective is the only valid truth he'll accept.
- Tomahawk

no use arguing w/ the alpha/omega of prophsyzed and fully realized omniscience