Maybe Read's problem is the center he's playing with.
- TheGreat28

Honestly, Read isnt as great as some on here think he is. He is decent.... but personally I never tried to rely on him for offense. It was just an extra. He looks slower than in years past.

Couts in a nutshell.

1 step forward...... 3 steps back. Is he even developing??? He was better as a rookie IMO.
- GOA88

I'd be more concerned about Read. He's not exactly young (28), so it's not exactly assured he'll be able to pull out of this tailspin and bounce completely back.

Coots will be fine. Patience will be rewarded eventually, even if he's always going to be inconsistent offensively like a Berglund, J Staal or Hanzal. At least the defense will always be there.

[quote=WarriorHockey21]What about how much time he plays Umberger and Vinnie? Those guys shouldn't even be suiting up, let alone getting the ice time they do.




Vinny played less then 7 minutes last game. I think 9 shifts.
- J35Bacher

it was nine shifts....because Vinny was counting!!

I'd be more concerned about Read. He's not exactly young (28), so it's not exactly assured he'll be able to pull out of this tailspin and bounce completely back.

Coots will be fine. Patience will be rewarded eventually, even if he's always going to be inconsistent offensively like a Berglund, J Staal or Hanzal. At least the defense will always be there.
- Tomahawk

Reads play has been very alarming...and your right he's not exactly new to the league....Couturier just hasn't played well. This is a kid that had success right away....perhaps they should have been more patient with him in the AHL....I believe he played like 30 something games although I might be off on that....I think he will be better, but Im not sure it will be for the Flyers.

Umberger has 1/3 PIMS than Hartnell (11 vs 33).

Flyers - 1
Blue Jackets - 0

The pyramids of Egypt, Stonehenge, are great mysteries of the world.
How RJ is still in this lineup...that has to rank right up there.
Wouldn't the 3rd line look better with Bellemare, Couturier, and Read ?
Bellemare skates!!!! He is a +1 while Zombie has a -10.
Just don't get it

for the right deal I would trade Cooty and Read, say someone like Hall or Jones

Honestly, Read isnt as great as some on here think he is. He is decent.... but personally I never tried to rely on him for offense. It was just an extra. He looks slower than in years past.
- GOA88

I was one of the fans that thought he would take that next step....just didn't think it would be backwards. Both him and Couturier look slower this year....confidence does funny things...and neither of these two have a lick of it right now.

Reads play has been very alarming...and your right he's not exactly new to the league....Couturier just hasn't played well. This is a kid that had success right away....perhaps they should have been more patient with him in the AHL....I believe he played like 30 something games although I might be off on that....I think he will be better, but Im not sure it will be for the Flyers.
- landros 2

Couts is playing his way off the team right now. IMO. His has not developed the way they had hoped. Even his defense seems to have taken a hit. He is too damn SLOW!

The pyramids of Egypt, Stonehenge, are great mysteries of the world.
How RJ is still in this lineup...that has to rank right up there.
Wouldn't the 3rd line look better with Bellemare, Couturier, and Read ?
Bellemare skates!!!! He is a +1 while Zombie has a -10.
Just don't get it
- 3flyerkids

How Umberger has not been scratched is beyond me. Unbelievable.

Or maybe it's the absence of Adam Hall causing their line to take so many defensive zone starts along with getting the toughest minutes of the Flyers lineup this season?
- Flyskippy

Look, at some point that starts to just be an excuse. I've watched the top line take a face-off in their own zone and actually advance the puck to generate a scoring opportunity. Heck, Laughton has done that fairly well too.

I just don't see a lot of offensive creativity from Couturier, or that line for that matter, when they are in the OZ. Last game for example, he moves up on a two on two rush, pivots and skates horizontally allowing the 3 remaining rangers to catch up so quickly even JJ commented it was now a 2 on 5 rush.

Another 2 on 1 a couple of weeks back, he was indecisive on whether to pass or shoot, then finally decided to pass but was too close to the net. So he made a weak pass right into the sliding dman.

Look, he is really really good in that 3rd line role. I think he will eventually generate more offense than he is now. But I think some of Read's struggles are also due to playing with Couturier.

The pyramids of Egypt, Stonehenge, are great mysteries of the world.
How RJ is still in this lineup...that has to rank right up there.
Wouldn't the 3rd line look better with Bellemare, Couturier, and Read ?
Bellemare skates!!!! He is a +1 while Zombie has a -10.
Just don't get it
- 3flyerkids

I think Berube figures that Umberger can still be effective even when not adding anything offensive. But it's clear that he is not playing good defensively either....I agree he has played his way to the press box.

I think Berube figures that Umberger can still be effective even when not adding anything offensive. But it's clear that he is not playing good defensively either....I agree he has played his way to the press box.
- landros 2

BUT... He hasnt!! He still gets way too much playing time.

Honestly, Read isnt as great as some on here think he is. He is decent.... but personally I never tried to rely on him for offense. It was just an extra. He looks slower than in years past.
- GOA88

Maybe. But then again, maybe he's trying to match the speed (or lack thereof) of his linemates. Let's face it, Read can hit the zone with a lot of speed, but he can't hold the puck for an extended period of time in the zone. He needs someone that is trailing him closely to dish it off too.

I don't understand Berube's decisions. He makes Bellemare a healthy scratch but Umberger is still in. Bellemare has been way better than Umberger this season. I think R.J is blackmailing the Flyers somehow. I don't know any other way to describe it.

BUT... He hasnt!! He still gets way too much playing time.
- GOA88

Can he be effective on the 4th line??

Maybe. But then again, maybe he's trying to match the speed (or lack thereof) of his linemates. Let's face it, Read can hit the zone with a lot of speed, but he can't hold the puck for an extended period of time in the zone. He needs someone that is trailing him closely to dish it off too.
- TheGreat28

Seems like he's not as fast this year... to me at least.

Maybe. But then again, maybe he's trying to match the speed (or lack thereof) of his linemates. Let's face it, Read can hit the zone with a lot of speed, but he can't hold the puck for an extended period of time in the zone. He needs someone that is trailing him closely to dish it off too.
- TheGreat28

I'm ready to jump off the Read train buddy. Sorry. He is as boring and plain of a hockey player as I've ever seen. Right along with Couts.

Honestly, Read isnt as great as some on here think he is. He is decent.... but personally I never tried to rely on him for offense. It was just an extra. He looks slower than in years past.
- GOA88

Read has some good offensive skills and I think they do need to rely on him to chip in for secondary scoring. I don't know if he's looked slower, but he's definitetely played some games where he's been invisible. He's not the only one who has to get going. I've watched several games thsi year where I am wondering, did Coots play? Did Simmonds take a shift or was he hurt? That's never a good sign.

I don't understand Berube's decisions. He makes Bellemare a healthy scratch but Umberger is still in. Bellemare has been way better than Umberger this season. I think R.J is blackmailing the Flyers somehow. I don't know any other way to describe it.
- RobFlyers#1

Blackmail... No other possible explanation

Read has some good offensive skills and I think they do need to rely on him to chip in for secondary scoring. I don't know if he's looked slower, but he's definitetely played some games where he's been invisible. He's not the only one who has to get going. I've watched several games thsi year where I am wondering, did Coots play? Did Simmonds take a shift or was he hurt? That's never a good sign.
- Hextall271

Its actually pathetic. Really.

The only reason Couturier played a second in the AHL is the lockout.

In terms of his development, he's been non-linear, like a lot of young players. But he's always had good defense. That's been an issue, because he carries such a ridiculous load, it affects his mindset and approach.

Before making a trade, I think the Flyers need to split Couturier and Read, and stop relying so heavily on them for defense. I'd split them, and Giroux & Voracek up, and split the heavy defensive lifting that Couturier currently gets between him, Giroux and Laughton.

The reasons are two fold. First, it gives Couturier a lesser burden and more opportunity to build his confidence. I think that's his biggest issue right now. Second, we get to see how Laughton can handle a bigger defensive role. I know we're all busy fitting him for his halo, but he's yet to score and he's had fairly easy usage.

Splitting Giroux and Voracek can hopefully give them two lines capable of being dangerous. As much as they rely on that one line for offense, the need for secondary scoring is so bad they need to consider the split.

Even though it's the only thing working, the team isn't winning. It's like keeping a piece of poop car, because the stereo is awesome.

What do you know, the Rags played someone besides the Flyers last night, and what a shocker they got pissed on.

I'm ready to jump off the Read train buddy. Sorry. He is as boring and plain of a hockey player as I've ever seen. Right along with Couts.
- GOA88

this team is slow and boring like its coach...this is the mind of an enforcer who mugged it up his whole career

Just imagine...

If the Flyers came out on a mission tonight and took a 2 goal early lead ..compliments of the 2nd and 3rd lines.
Then the weight of the world would be off the 1st line and maybe relax the whole team.. Including the blueline!