Utterly hilarious on the forums lately. Where are the posts that this was a better team than last year now? Where were the simple replacements for guys like Spezza and Alfie when they left? Fans treat this team like an NHL 15 dynasty sometimes. It takes time to get better again after being not so great. You can't simply replace good players with lesser players and expect better results. Every great player we have lost, we have replaced with a (not necessarily bad) lesser talented player. Spezza, Alfie, Heatley, Chara, etc. These players have never been replaced, but people pretend we have. It will take time to get those level players back. Ryan and Karlsson are good starts, but both are struggling. Mainly due to being the only guys on the team opposing squads have to shut down. The sky isn't falling. The season is going as planned. Lots of rough spots with some exciting moments by the next generation of players. I think our depth is good on this team. However, we are missing high end talent. It's anyone guess on how we acquire that (trade, develop, draft, free agency), but that's the next step for this team. It's frustrating to watch for sure, but I don't know what people actually expected.

Utterly hilarious on the forums lately. Where are the posts that this was a better team than last year now? Where were the simple replacements for guys like Spezza and Alfie when they left? Fans treat this team like an NHL 15 dynasty sometimes. It takes time to get better again after being not so great. You can't simply replace good players with lesser players and expect better results. Every great player we have lost, we have replaced with a (not necessarily bad) lesser talented player. Spezza, Alfie, Heatley, Chara, etc. These players have never been replaced, but people pretend we have. It will take time to get those level players back. Ryan and Karlsson are good starts, but both are struggling. Mainly due to being the only guys on the team opposing squads have to shut down. The sky isn't falling. The season is going as planned. Lots of rough spots with some exciting moments by the next generation of players. I think our depth is good on this team. However, we are missing high end talent. It's anyone guess on how we acquire that (trade, develop, draft, free agency), but that's the next step for this team. It's frustrating to watch for sure, but I don't know what people actually expected.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

A complete 180 in the team area where there wasn't a single change made.

Utterly hilarious on the forums lately. Where are the posts that this was a better team than last year now? Where were the simple replacements for guys like Spezza and Alfie when they left? Fans treat this team like an NHL 15 dynasty sometimes. It takes time to get better again after being not so great. You can't simply replace good players with lesser players and expect better results. Every great player we have lost, we have replaced with a (not necessarily bad) lesser talented player. Spezza, Alfie, Heatley, Chara, etc. These players have never been replaced, but people pretend we have. It will take time to get those level players back. Ryan and Karlsson are good starts, but both are struggling. Mainly due to being the only guys on the team opposing squads have to shut down. The sky isn't falling. The season is going as planned. Lots of rough spots with some exciting moments by the next generation of players. I think our depth is good on this team. However, we are missing high end talent. It's anyone guess on how we acquire that (trade, develop, draft, free agency), but that's the next step for this team. It's frustrating to watch for sure, but I don't know what people actually expected.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

i'll eat some crow for sure. i thought zibby would be much better this year, allowing turris to improve.....meaning spezza would be, for teh most part, replaceable.

obviously that hasn't happened. zibby hasn't taken a step forward, and i think as a result, teams can focus 100% on turris, which has also lead to his production declining.

i still have faith that in the long run it will be fine.....and if not, well we get a top line center in the draft

edit - and in my defense, i always said there would be some short term pain for some long term gain.

Utterly hilarious on the forums lately. Where are the posts that this was a better team than last year now? Where were the simple replacements for guys like Spezza and Alfie when they left? Fans treat this team like an NHL 15 dynasty sometimes. It takes time to get better again after being not so great. You can't simply replace good players with lesser players and expect better results. Every great player we have lost, we have replaced with a (not necessarily bad) lesser talented player. Spezza, Alfie, Heatley, Chara, etc. These players have never been replaced, but people pretend we have. It will take time to get those level players back. Ryan and Karlsson are good starts, but both are struggling. Mainly due to being the only guys on the team opposing squads have to shut down. The sky isn't falling. The season is going as planned. Lots of rough spots with some exciting moments by the next generation of players. I think our depth is good on this team. However, we are missing high end talent. It's anyone guess on how we acquire that (trade, develop, draft, free agency), but that's the next step for this team. It's frustrating to watch for sure, but I don't know what people actually expected.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

I agree. I actually expected the Sens to be right about where they are in the standings at this point. I did take into consideration the toughness of their schedule, though.

The part that worries me, is that they are where they are because of their goaltending. I knew the Anderson/lehner combo would be good, but those two are flat-out stealing games (and loser points) for us.

If Ottawa had Edmonton's goaltending, they would probably have the same record as the Oilers right now, and that's concerning.

Something big needs to happen in order for the Sens to become a playoff team. I don't think getting #7-14 draft picks will do the job. As you said, they need high end talent.

As it stands, the Sens going forward look like what the Leafs have been over the last decade. Not good enough to be a contender (or even make the playoffs some years), but not bad enough to get high end talent through the draft.

If you look at all the top teams right now (outside Montreal and Anaheim), they've all bottomed out at some point and got high end talent through the draft. Those two teams are the exception to the rule. Those two teams also spend to the cap, which is a luxury the Sens don't have. I don't see the Sens being able to draft a Perry or Getzlaf (let alone two players of that talent level) with mid first round picks.

i'll eat some crow for sure. i thought zibby would be much better this year, allowing turris to improve.....meaning spezza would be, for teh most part, replaceable.

obviously that hasn't happened. zibby hasn't taken a step forward, and i think as a result, teams can focus 100% on turris, which has also lead to his production declining.

i still have faith that in the long run it will be fine.....and if not, well we get a top line center in the draft

edit - and in my defense, i always said there would be some short term pain for some long term gain.
- sensarmy_11

I'm fine with the direction of this team. It's just not a quick fix. I share the frustration of certain players like Zibby. The defence was never addressed after last years gong show. Guys like Phillips, Boro, and to a lesser extent Gryba (haven't minded his play lately) wouldn't be on other NHL rosters most likely. Maybe Method will add stability, but he was on the gongshow blueline last year.

I agree. I actually expected the Sens to be right about where they are in the standings at this point. I did take into consideration the toughness of their schedule, though.

The part that worries me, is that they are where they are because of their goaltending. I knew the Anderson/lehner combo would be good, but those two are flat-out stealing games (and loser points) for us.

If Ottawa had Edmonton's goaltending, they would probably have the same record as the Oilers right now, and that's concerning.

Something big needs to happen in order for the Sens to become a playoff team. I don't think getting #7-14 draft picks will do the job. As you said, they need high end talent.

As it stands, the Sens going forward look like what the Leafs have been over the last decade. Not good enough to be a contender (or even make the playoffs some years), but not bad enough to get high end talent through the draft.

If you look at all the top teams right now (outside Montreal and Anaheim), they've all bottomed out at some point and got high end talent through the draft. Those two teams are the exception to the rule. Those two teams also spend to the cap, which is a luxury the Sens don't have. I don't see the Sens being able to draft a Perry or Getzlaf (let alone two players of that talent level) with mid first round picks.
- Charliebox

Bad example. Getzlaf was 19th, Perry 28th. Although it was possibly the deepest draft in memory, 2003.

Put any 2nd line center with Alfie and Heatley in their prime and they will have a PPG, easy. Turris would have easily had a PPG playing with those two all stars.

You talk of revisionist history. I think you're remembering things incorrectly. I remember many, many times, when the Sens tried to take Alfie off that line, it stopped producing. The Sens desperately wanted Alfie on the 2nd line to have a nice 1-2 punch, but they could never take him off that line.

Why?

Cause Spezza and Heatley relied on him to create things and even more so defensively. It was always Alfie back first.

Alfie was the straw that stirred the drink on that line, not Spezza. The only time in his career that Spezza was a consistent + player (as well as a PPG player) was when he was on that line (except for, as I already mentioned, the year he dragged Greening and Michalek around).

Edit: if you also remember correctly in all those years, Spezza had an injury per season. He missed 10-20 games each of those years. Who did they put on that line? Chris freaking Kelly.. and that line didn't miss a beat.
- Charliebox

Okeydoke, well I would more correlate Spezza's decline to his injuries, but if you can honestly say that Spezza wasn't a top-30 centre in the league at any point in his career, then I guess we'll 'agree to disagree', because you can't argue with crazy

I'm fine with the direction of this team. It's just not a quick fix. I share the frustration of certain players like Zibby. The defence was never addressed after last years gong show. Guys like Phillips, Boro, and to a lesser extent Gryba (haven't minded his play lately) wouldn't be on other NHL rosters most likely. Maybe Method will add stability, but he was on the gongshow blueline last year.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

that was my biggest concern too.....although i always thought it would be addressed through the spezza trade, which is why i was okay with moving him.

that being said, murray's hands were tied (to a certain extent) by the NTC, and i actually like the return he got.

i agree that having phillips and gryba signed to multi-year 1 way deals just kills this defense. boro to a lesser extent, as i find he's looked good when on the bottom pairing.

i think if, when methot is back, we have a top 4 of:

karlsson - meth
ceci - cowen

and everyone else is banished to bottom pair or press box, it will help. then move out 2-3 of those guys, bring up wideman and claesson, and we actually have a pretty good D

i'll eat some crow for sure. i thought zibby would be much better this year, allowing turris to improve.....meaning spezza would be, for teh most part, replaceable.

obviously that hasn't happened. zibby hasn't taken a step forward, and i think as a result, teams can focus 100% on turris, which has also lead to his production declining.

i still have faith that in the long run it will be fine.....and if not, well we get a top line center in the draft

edit - and in my defense, i always said there would be some short term pain for some long term gain.
- sensarmy_11

Totally. It was only ever the 'addition by subtraction' people that were out to lunch

Bad example. Getzlaf was 19th, Perry 28th. Although it was possibly the deepest draft in memory, 2003.
- JaredCrozier

I actually think this is sort of a good example. Look at the hype guys like Lazar, Pag, Ceci, Cowen, Stone and Zibby get (or got), start counting Paul soon, in these threads. I see good players possibly, but not superstars. Lots of fans expected to get rid of high end players and replace them with young players who have hype, mainly from the Ottawa media.

I actually think this is sort of a good example. Look at the hype guys like Lazar, Pag, Ceci, Cowen, Stone and Zibby get (or got), start counting Paul soon, in these threads. I see good players possibly, but not superstars. Lots of fans expected to get rid of high end players and replace them with young players who have hype, mainly from the Ottawa media.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

Yep. Yep. Yep.

Alfie - left over money (Murray)
Spezza - left over money and because the team took a different direction (Murray)
Legwand signing - doesn't look great, but less than a half season in (Murray)
Hemsky - not a good deal, but not a big deal either (Murray)
Lame duck coach last year - ??? (Murray threw Maclean under the bus at the end of last season when the players floated all yer the end of season press conference went something like this "we want a nicer Paul back" The solution to players floating is to be nicer to them, this is like giving your spoiled brat kid a bigger allowance thinking it will make them a better person
Disgruntled fan base - you mean fan base with overly high expectations, right? (Murray every year says we are a playoff team - this year is no different so he either is out of touch, thinks we are stupid or doesn't know what he is doing)
Ottawa failing to sell out - maybe Ottawa isn't the greatest sports town? In any case when teams are rebuilding it's not surprising that the people aren't in the seats to the same extent (Ottawa isn't a great sports town but it is a great hockey town)
- tuna99

Next up - Tuna rails against Murray for having cancer... "Like, it's only stage 4, yet he's already saying he won't be there for the team in a couple of years - he's not committed at all."

Utterly hilarious on the forums lately. Where are the posts that this was a better team than last year now? Where were the simple replacements for guys like Spezza and Alfie when they left? Fans treat this team like an NHL 15 dynasty sometimes. It takes time to get better again after being not so great. You can't simply replace good players with lesser players and expect better results. Every great player we have lost, we have replaced with a (not necessarily bad) lesser talented player. Spezza, Alfie, Heatley, Chara, etc. These players have never been replaced, but people pretend we have. It will take time to get those level players back. Ryan and Karlsson are good starts, but both are struggling. Mainly due to being the only guys on the team opposing squads have to shut down. The sky isn't falling. The season is going as planned. Lots of rough spots with some exciting moments by the next generation of players. I think our depth is good on this team. However, we are missing high end talent. It's anyone guess on how we acquire that (trade, develop, draft, free agency), but that's the next step for this team. It's frustrating to watch for sure, but I don't know what people actually expected.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

Turris, MacArthur, Ryan, and Methot. Yeah, those are the replacements.



(at least we finally replaced Redden )

thought the team would be better than last year, but isnt that what being a fan is?
disappointed in the teams play thus far, for sure, but at the same time we still have a solid core and things (crosses fingers) will get better... guys will develop... changes will be made.... some players (crosses fingers) will retire.

that being said, i'm proud of the sens fan community. i love reading sens blogs... especially blogs from different perspectives/ opinions that i might not (originally at least) share.

would you read a blog from someone who just sat in an ivory tower and refused to engage in any discussion based on the assumption that they know better?

prolly not.

so, thankful for jareds writing (even though i don't always agree with you), and thankful for all the other great sens writing out there. i think we have a strong group here. its engaging with the game, the team, the players, the organization as a whole, that makes this developing years not so bad, imo. i know that i get way more out of the games bc the discussions that i've had, the blogs and tweets that i've read, the people whom i have engaged with all contribute to my experience of watching the game. which i think is cool. talking about the sens- on and off the ice-- or just hockey in general make long seasons like this far more manageable.

there are lots of things wrong with the sens organization--- but i don't think that extends to the fans. we have a good group here. fickle, maybe-- but passion is better than indifference and arrogance, imo.

Wow, everyone is fired up.

I'm excited in the youth. Excited with what Stone and Hoffman are showing. No way they would have signed Michalek if they knew both would be playing so well.


Just too bad there is dead money in Greening, and Michalek.
- Ottawa Fan

It's hard to watch this team and believe the players care - this is not a bad team this is a horrid team - it's hard to watch this team on the ice, it hurts your eyes.

It also seems like the team is getting worse the more games it plays - that is what pisses me off. No pride, no toughness, nothing for the fans to watch except the odd Stone play and Hoffman shot - outside of that we are straight up the worse team in the league.

It's hard to watch this team and believe the players care - this is not a bad team this is a horrid team - it's hard to watch this team on the ice, it hurts your eyes.

It also seems like the team is getting worse the more games it plays - that is what pisses me off. No pride, no toughness, nothing for the fans to watch except the odd Stone play and Hoffman shot - outside of that we are straight up the worse team in the league.
- tuna99

The way they're playing now, they're pretty bad.
Edmonton and buffalo may disagree with that.

ANd so long as Anderson is in net (and Lehner, to a lesser degree,) they never will be. Goalie is part of the team, which could be a bad thing if this trend continues all season.

i vote yes
- sensarmy_11

as do I

thought the team would be better than last year, but isnt that what being a fan is?
disappointed in the teams play thus far, for sure, but at the same time we still have a solid core and things (crosses fingers) will get better... guys will develop... changes will be made.... some players (crosses fingers) will retire.

that being said, i'm proud of the sens fan community. i love reading sens blogs... especially blogs from different perspectives/ opinions that i might not (originally at least) share.

would you read a blog from someone who just sat in an ivory tower and refused to engage in any discussion based on the assumption that they know better?

prolly not.

so, thankful for jareds writing (even though i don't always agree with you), and thankful for all the other great sens writing out there. i think we have a strong group here. its engaging with the game, the team, the players, the organization as a whole, that makes this developing years not so bad, imo. i know that i get way more out of the games bc the discussions that i've had, the blogs and tweets that i've read, the people whom i have engaged with all contribute to my experience of watching the game. which i think is cool. talking about the sens- on and off the ice-- or just hockey in general make long seasons like this far more manageable.

there are lots of things wrong with the sens organization--- but i don't think that extends to the fans. we have a good group here. fickle, maybe-- but passion is better than indifference and arrogance, imo.
- sen_smile

My feelings exactly

I was just going to say how much more fun I have on these forums when we're losing

thought the team would be better than last year, but isnt that what being a fan is?
disappointed in the teams play thus far, for sure, but at the same time we still have a solid core and things (crosses fingers) will get better... guys will develop... changes will be made.... some players (crosses fingers) will retire.

that being said, i'm proud of the sens fan community. i love reading sens blogs... especially blogs from different perspectives/ opinions that i might not (originally at least) share.

would you read a blog from someone who just sat in an ivory tower and refused to engage in any discussion based on the assumption that they know better?

prolly not.

so, thankful for jareds writing (even though i don't always agree with you), and thankful for all the other great sens writing out there. i think we have a strong group here. its engaging with the game, the team, the players, the organization as a whole, that makes this developing years not so bad, imo. i know that i get way more out of the games bc the discussions that i've had, the blogs and tweets that i've read, the people whom i have engaged with all contribute to my experience of watching the game. which i think is cool. talking about the sens- on and off the ice-- or just hockey in general make long seasons like this far more manageable.

there are lots of things wrong with the sens organization--- but i don't think that extends to the fans. we have a good group here. fickle, maybe-- but passion is better than indifference and arrogance, imo.
- sen_smile

Brilliant post. I know I wouldn't be here if I agreed with everything posted and written. I think there is definitely a good passion amongst the fan base.

The only part I don't agree with is that thinking the team would be better is what being a fan is all about. You can still be a fan and feel the team is not up to snuff. I think that's the difference in homer fans and hockey fans. I'll always cheer for this team and get excited when they win, but at the point in time, as an educated fan, you can't be overly surprised when they loose. There are 29 other teams in the league doing their own thing. Many are ahead of the Sens right now.

Brilliant post. I know I wouldn't be here if I agreed with everything posted and written. I think there is definitely a good passion amongst the fan base.

The only part I don't agree with is that thinking the team would be better is what being a fan is all about. You can still be a fan and feel the team is not up to snuff. I think that's the difference in homer fans and hockey fans. I'll always cheer for this team and get excited when they win, but at the point in time, as an educated fan, you can't be overly surprised when they loose. There are 29 other teams in the league doing their own thing. Many are ahead of the Sens right now.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

i think a lot of people, myself included, who thought they'd be better this year, did so based on some assumptions that didn't pan out.

1. zibby would take that next step in his game and be a legit top six center

- this wasn't a "homer assumption", it was very reasonable, and if zibby was playing well and we had two legit top six lines could have made a difference.

2. assumed that some of the young d-men would improve.

- this has in fact been the case, as cowen and ceci both look better than they did last year. the methot injury has been incredibly hard for the team, as it's forced guys to play on the top pairing, against elite level opponents, who are just not talented enough to play outside the bottom pair. it's also had an impact on karlsson's game, as not having a reliable partner doesn't allow him to play the sytle of game that makes him effective.

3. assumed that turris would take the next step

- i think this is tied into my first point. if zibby was playing well, then opposing teams have to worry about both top six lines. as it stands now, they can pretty much focus on on turris, as no other lines (other than the kid line) look dangerous at all. this has clearly had an impact on turris' production. i think if zibby starts playing better, you'll see that also translated into turris' production.

i'm sure there are some other points, but those are the 3 big assumptions i made, that haven't come true (in one way or another) that i think are having a really big impact on this team.

Brilliant post. I know I wouldn't be here if I agreed with everything posted and written. I think there is definitely a good passion amongst the fan base.

The only part I don't agree with is that thinking the team would be better is what being a fan is all about. You can still be a fan and feel the team is not up to snuff. I think that's the difference in homer fans and hockey fans. I'll always cheer for this team and get excited when they win, but at the point in time, as an educated fan, you can't be overly surprised when they loose. There are 29 other teams in the league doing their own thing. Many are ahead of the Sens right now.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

yah. i like our fan base--- though i don't always agree with everyone. that's what makes the discussion worth while.. and it sure as hell helps to talk about stuff when there's a lot of poop on the ice. lol

im okay with losing... esp. bc its part of developing (team is so young)
but, i get frustrated when there is a lack lusture of effort out there. its scary to think how we would look if were werent getting solid goaltending most nights.

My feelings exactly

I was just going to say how much more fun I have on these forums when we're losing
- Mr_Clean

i know. i'd probably turn the game off sometimes if it werent for the stuff that gets said here. keeps me from crying myself to bed at night

3. assumed that turris would take the next step

- i think this is tied into my first point. if zibby was playing well, then opposing teams have to worry about both top six lines. as it stands now, they can pretty much focus on on turris, as no other lines (other than the kid line) look dangerous at all. this has clearly had an impact on turris' production. i think if zibby starts playing better, you'll see that also translated into turris' production.

- sensarmy_11

i saw you mention this earlier, and i'm inclined to agree. turris is the main target right now. it seems both zib and kt are going thru some growing pains this year-- turris's is correlated, perhaps as you mention, to zib's lack of production / sub par performance.

i think zib will get better.... but he is certainly struggling a bit up there right now. i think putting him with the right linemates might help. he looked better with hoff on his wing last night.

i really want the team to bring up pageau. im curious how he plays... and i'd be curious to see him in a 3c role rather than a 4c... though he can play the shut down role well.. i'd like to see him btw some sort of talent (other than neil and smith)

i saw you mention this earlier, and i'm inclined to agree. turris is the main target right now.
i think zib will get better.... but he is certainly struggling a bit up there right now. i think putting him with the right linemates might help. he looked better with hoff on his wing last night.

i really want the team to bring up pageau. im curious how he plays... and i'd be curious to see him in a 3c role rather than a 4c... though he can play the shut down role well.. i'd like to see him btw some sort of talent (other than neil and smith)
- sen_smile

i think your 2nd para is one of the reasons that melnyk's budget kills this team. other teams have the ability to waive guys and send them to the minors, or just buy them out.....meaning that deadweight on their team is kept to a minimum, and they don't have nhl ready guys wasting away in the AHL.

this team would be SOOOO much better if guys like greening/gryba/smith/etc were replaced by guys like pageau/wideman/claesson/etc....but the $$ and 1-ways deals prevent it from happening.

i think a lot of people, myself included, who thought they'd be better this year, did so based on some assumptions that didn't pan out.

1. zibby would take that next step in his game and be a legit top six center

- this wasn't a "homer assumption", it was very reasonable, and if zibby was playing well and we had two legit top six lines could have made a difference.

2. assumed that some of the young d-men would improve.

- this has in fact been the case, as cowen and ceci both look better than they did last year. the methot injury has been incredibly hard for the team, as it's forced guys to play on the top pairing, against elite level opponents, who are just not talented enough to play outside the bottom pair. it's also had an impact on karlsson's game, as not having a reliable partner doesn't allow him to play the sytle of game that makes him effective.

3. assumed that turris would take the next step

- i think this is tied into my first point. if zibby was playing well, then opposing teams have to worry about both top six lines. as it stands now, they can pretty much focus on on turris, as no other lines (other than the kid line) look dangerous at all. this has clearly had an impact on turris' production. i think if zibby starts playing better, you'll see that also translated into turris' production.

i'm sure there are some other points, but those are the 3 big assumptions i made, that haven't come true (in one way or another) that i think are having a really big impact on this team.
- sensarmy_11

I'm not sure how relying on a 21 year old who has already struggled with consistency prior to this season to play extremely well was a reasonable expectation. I also don't know where or how people thought Turris would take a giant leap. I've expressed that numerous times and somehow I'm still wrong despite the evidence game after game. He is a 2nd line centre and nothing more. I do agree having other strong centres may help, but that is a whole other discussion. People underestimated the departure of certain players and overestimated the performance of the players we have now. We are in good shape for the long term, but we are going to be dealt growing pains at the beginning.