First you don't build your team around wingers. So for 2/3 the teams in the NHL, yes I think they would take a C of Z's caliber over Hall because they don't have that. MacKinnon a no brainer. Disappointing to see him struggling this year all things considered.

I want McDavid or Eichel because I know it will speed up our rebuild. Girgensons will be just as important of a player to this team than those 2 would be.
- theblueandgold

Rob Ray said yesterday that when Gionta is no longer here, Girgensons will be the captain. He said he already commands the attention of the locker room and the guys gravitate toward him.

And he's only 20 years old.

First you don't build your team around wingers. So for 2/3 the teams in the NHL, yes I think they would take a C of Z's caliber over Hall because they don't have that. MacKinnon a no brainer. Disappointing to see him struggling this year all things considered.

I want McDavid or Eichel because I know it will speed up our rebuild. Girgensons will be just as important of a player to this team than those 2 would be.
- theblueandgold

Interesting, I'm not saying it's wrong or right I just think I have a lower ceiling envisioned for him than most people (happy to have him prove me wrong though).

But you're right he'll definitely be an important player moving forward.

Is Hall a good player? Yes. I wouldn't call him great right now. His team is on a 10 game losing streak. He's had trouble staying healthy because he wants to play physical but doesn't seem to know how to do so without putting himself in harms way.

I'm not saying that Girgensons is better skill wise, but I think he has more of the intangibles that you need guys to have. Those aren't things you can teach.
- HonkFortheGoose

Hall is way better. I know you love Girgensons, and I do too but Hall is a superstar

Richards was acquired at the start of his prime (27). You're right he wasn't acquired to be the main offensive player that he was in Philly since they had Kopitar. But Richards was acquired add depth down the middle. With him and Kopitar they could now roll two offensive lines that were defensively responsible and stifling. They don't have a Crosby or Stamkos. So they did the next best thing and loaded their lineup with guys who could play both ends of the ice.
- theblueandgold

Agreed on all fronts except I'm not entirely convinced we have anyone that can be our Kopitar. The depth is there for sure and guys like Reinhart and Grigorenko have a lot of promise but will it be enough?

The thing is he has (or at least done his best) for a while now, that team is just as broken(probably worse at this point, at least we have goaltending) as the sabres. Girgensons may be on a hot streak right now, but I suspect over 82 games Hall and Mackinnon will wide the gap against him statistically.

I think Girgensons is very good, he's an important piece of our future core and there's very little out there that i'd trade him away for. But Hall and Mackinnon are an example of two players I would, you're more likely to win a cup with Mackinnon as your best forward vs. Girgensons.
- Sabresfan-365

I feel like you're missing the point here. And that goes back to you calling Richards a complimentary player (a former #1C as a youngster who plays 2 way hockey a complimentary player? Lol.).... You're building a team. It doesn't matter how good the best forward on your team is. I'd rather have the 8, 9, 20, 22 best forward in the league on my team over the 1, 2, 80, 120 in my top 6... There's a reason PIT hasn't seen a cup in 7 years, no depth behind Crosby or Malkin.

The thing is he has (or at least done his best) for a while now, that team is just as broken(probably worse at this point, at least we have goaltending) as the sabres. Girgensons may be on a hot streak right now, but I suspect over 82 games Hall and Mackinnon will wide the gap against him statistically.

I think Girgensons is very good, he's an important piece of our future core and there's very little out there that i'd trade him away for. But Hall and Mackinnon are an example of two players I would, you're more likely to win a cup with Mackinnon as your best forward vs. Girgensons.
- Sabresfan-365

If you're going after a player like MacKinnon or Hall, you don't want to give up a guy like Girgensons though. While you need highly skilled guys, the guys that do what Girgensons does are just as important, if not more so.

Would I love one of them here? Sure, but I'm not sacrificing the one player that we have that's really worth building around to get them either. You're just setting yourself back in a different area if you do that.

Hall is way better. I know you love Girgensons, and I do too but Hall is a superstar
- sbroads24

I don't throw around things like super star and elite like most around here. While Hall is a very talented player, I don't consider him a super star.

I feel like you're missing the point here. And that goes back to you calling Richards a complimentary player (a former #1C as a youngster who plays 2 way hockey a complimentary player? Lol.).... You're building a team. It doesn't matter how good the best forward on your team is. I'd rather have the 8, 9, 20, 22 best forward in the league on my team over the 1, 2, 80, 120 in my top 6... There's a reason PIT hasn't seen a cup in 7 years, no depth behind Crosby or Malkin.
- theblueandgold

When i called him complimentary, i meant his time in LA, I'm well aware of how good he was in Philly, He didn't become my least favourite player because he was a bench warmer.

And I do agree with your 2nd point but do we even have 8, 9 and 20? Can we say with any real certainty that any of the guys we have in our organization right now will be top 10?

Edit: Good chance I am, but I'm knee deep in this so no turning back

If you're going after a player like MacKinnon or Hall, you don't want to give up a guy like Girgensons though. While you need highly skilled guys, the guys that do what Girgensons does are just as important, if not more so.

Would I love one of them here? Sure, but I'm not sacrificing the one player that we have that's really worth building around to get them either. You're just setting yourself back in a different area if you do that.
- HonkFortheGoose

That brings me all the way back to my original point though. If we miss out on landing a guy like that via the draft, Murray will have to go looking for one and I'm not sure we can acquire one without having to give up a guy like Girgensons.

I don't throw around things like super star and elite like most around here. While Hall is a very talented player, I don't consider him a super star.
- HonkFortheGoose

When Hall was Girgensons age he had 50 points in 45 games on a team comparable to the Sabres

Agreed on all fronts except I'm not entirely convinced we have anyone that can be our Kopitar. The depth is there for sure and guys like Reinhart and Grigorenko have a lot of promise but will it be enough?
- Sabresfan-365

People are disappointed in Reinhart already because he didn't stick and didn't provide offense early in his career. Make no mistake Reinhart will be a very important player. You can't say enough about hockey IQ. He just needed to get stronger. I have faith that Reinhart and Girgensons can be enough even of we miss out on McEichel.

That brings me all the way back to my original point though. If we miss out on landing a guy like that via the draft, Murray will have to go looking for one and I'm not sure we can acquire one without having to give up a guy like Girgensons.
- Sabresfan-365

Hmmmmmmmm Trade away the team assets to get one. that might work. Then acquire more picks to to compliment said player (3 years away)

I don't like it.

People are disappointed in Reinhart already because he didn't stick and didn't provide offense early in his career. Make no mistake Reinhart will be a very important player. You can't say enough about hockey IQ. He just needed to get stronger. I have faith that Reinhart and Girgensons can be enough even of we miss out on McEichel.
- theblueandgold

I admit I'm being a little harsh on both of them, hopefully if we miss out they will enough.

People are disappointed in Reinhart already because he didn't stick and didn't provide offense early in his career. Make no mistake Reinhart will be a very important player. You can't say enough about hockey IQ. He just needed to get stronger. I have faith that Reinhart and Girgensons can be enough even of we miss out on McEichel.
- theblueandgold

Somebody gets it.

People are disappointed in Reinhart already because he didn't stick and didn't provide offense early in his career. Make no mistake Reinhart will be a very important player. You can't say enough about hockey IQ. He just needed to get stronger. I have faith that Reinhart and Girgensons can be enough even of we miss out on McEichel.
- theblueandgold

Or, if we get mcEichel, deciding weather to play Reinhart or Grigo at #2 will be a nice problem to have.

* just came back with a couple mighty tacos

Just thought i'd bring that up. Extra hot with jalapenos to help rid this damn head cold.

People are disappointed in Reinhart already because he didn't stick and didn't provide offense early in his career. Make no mistake Reinhart will be a very important player. You can't say enough about hockey IQ. He just needed to get stronger. I have faith that Reinhart and Girgensons can be enough even of we miss out on McEichel.
- theblueandgold

Agreed. Reinhart has a lot of Bergeron/Kopitar to his game

* just came back with a couple mighty tacos

Just thought i'd bring that up. Extra hot with jalapenos to help rid this damn head cold.
- cabin

Theres taquerias as far as the eye can see in my neighborhood but i still miss MT. Usually the first place i go when i get in to town But this year, i'll get in on christmas day.....so i'll have to wait.

When Hall was Girgensons age he had 50 points in 45 games on a team comparable to the Sabres
- sbroads24

You seem to think that I'm saying Girgensons is better than Hall. I specifically said that Hall has more skill. But Girgensons has a lot of the intangibles that Hall doesn't. And you can't teach those. I'm only giving up Girgensons if the player we get in return is an overall upgrade. I won't sacrifice one thing for another.

When i called him complimentary, i meant his time in LA, I'm well aware of how good he was in Philly, He didn't become my least favourite player because he was a bench warmer.

And I do agree with your 2nd point but do we even have 8, 9 and 20? Can we say with any real certainty that any of the guys we have in our organization right now will be top 10?

Edit: Good chance I am, but I'm knee deep in this so no turning back
- Sabresfan-365

The point I'm making is that a Stanley cup isn't won with one player. Obvious isn't it? I think this whole McEichel stuff is making people believe that we HAVE to land 1 of the 2 in order to see a cup out of out rebuild... That's just not true.

Our pipeline is booming right now. Most of our first 2 round picks in the last 2 drafts are leading their team in some capacity... And even later round picks doing work (Baptiste and Fasching).

We don't know if well have a top 10 player, but I think we have several that will come close. And that's all you need. 4 or 5 players that collectively can put up more than the best player can with his supporting cast tagging along.

Somebody gets it.
- cabin

I've always gotten it cabbie, I'm smarter than all you cronies

You seem to think that I'm saying Girgensons is better than Hall. I specifically said that Hall has more skill. But Girgensons has a lot of the intangibles that Hall doesn't. And you can't teach those. I'm only giving up Girgensons if the player we get in return is an overall upgrade. I won't sacrifice one thing for another.
- HonkFortheGoose

Girgensons is going to be a beast of a 3rd line center when the skill centers develop. That dude is going to decimate other 3rd lines. Couldnt agree more. Those guys dont grow on trees

Girgensons is going to be a beast of a 3rd line center when the skill centers develop. That dude is going to decimate other 3rd lines. Couldnt agree more. Those guys dont grow on trees
- seedy

Other teams already hate playing against him and he's only 1/4 of a way into his second year in the league.

Or, if we get mcEichel, deciding weather to play Reinhart or Grigo at #2 will be a nice problem to have.
- seedy

If we got McEichel Reinhart would be a winger. Girgensons will be one of the two Top 6 C on this team into the future...

You seem to think that I'm saying Girgensons is better than Hall. I specifically said that Hall has more skill. But Girgensons has a lot of the intangibles that Hall doesn't. And you can't teach those. I'm only giving up Girgensons if the player we get in return is an overall upgrade. I won't sacrifice one thing for another.
- HonkFortheGoose

Hall has intangibles as well. He's a total package