So you'd be cool with moving 3-4 of them? You want to redo 1/2 of our back end this season? Sorry, I'm gonna disagree, unless you get no-brainer offers. Maybe 1 or 2, but no more.
- jmatchett383

Why not? Fact is these guys may get a decent return, we are going nowhere and have some scrubs like Laurisden who are going nowhere in their careers. So use those guys and continue to lose while receiving assets for the others. FA pool will be filled with Vets. Honestly is Staal hits FA I am throwing money at him. FA pool this season is literally filled with guys like we have. They can easily be replaced and sold again next season if we aren't better. Chances are you only get good offers for 2 though.

So you'd prefer they didn't try to push these guys to being the best they can be and maybe winning a Stanley Cup? They want to be professionals, right?

"It's okay, sonny, you did what you could. Here's your certificate of participation; I'm sure your parents are proud of you."
- tangent_man

Like I mentioned before, the quality FAs will be looking for years in their deals. If the kids in the system aren't nearly ready, that's fine; if they're closer, you're just making them wait in the wings longer.

Hexy will prove his worth in the evaluation field (and negotiations) this summer, I hope.
- tangent_man

I think there's some players out there to be had on shorter deals. Quick look:

Patrick Eaves ($650k)
Raphael Diaz ($700k)
Lee Stempniak ($900k)
Erik Condra ($1.25M)
Mark Letestu ($1.25M)
Matt Bartkowski ($1.25M)
Matt Belesky ($1.25M)

Just a few names. Assume a 10% raise and you could get some good values.

Why not? Fact is these guys may get a decent return, we are going nowhere and have some scrubs like Laurisden who are going nowhere in their careers. So use those guys and continue to lose while receiving assets for the others. FA pool will be filled with Vets. Honestly is Staal hits FA I am throwing money at him. FA pool this season is literally filled with guys like we have. They can easily be replaced and sold again next season if we aren't better. Chances are you only get good offers for 2 though.
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

Because this isn't NHL15, you can't just get a whole crop of UFAs and unproven rookies and expect them to play anything resembling competent hockey. I'd prefer not to go through another season like this.

I think there's some players out there to be had on shorter deals. Quick look:

Patrick Eaves ($650k)
Raphael Diaz ($700k)
Lee Stempniak ($900k)
Erik Condra ($1.25M)
Mark Letestu ($1.25M)
Matt Bartkowski ($1.25M)
Matt Belesky ($1.25M)

Just a few names. Assume a 10% raise and you could get some good values.
- jmatchett383

Patience is key in UFA.

Wait until you get the bargain.

So you'd prefer they didn't try to push these guys to being the best they can be and maybe winning a Stanley Cup? They want to be professionals, right?

"It's okay, sonny, you did what you could. Here's your certificate of participation; I'm sure your parents are proud of you."
- tangent_man

I just think their forms of motivation are archaic. Kids don't respond the way they did 20-30 years ago. When coaches call someone out, they get more defensive now. Like "why the (frank) are you calling me out when everyone else is doing the same poop."

It just seems like this team isn't transparent at all. There seems to be no rhyme or reason to their madness imo.

Dear God, we would have been the Edmonton Oilers the last few years if we had made that move!
- BiggE

but we had the second overall pick in 2007!

I think there's some players out there to be had on shorter deals. Quick look:

Patrick Eaves ($650k)
Raphael Diaz ($700k)
Lee Stempniak ($900k)
Erik Condra ($1.25M)
Mark Letestu ($1.25M)
Matt Bartkowski ($1.25M)
Matt Belesky ($1.25M)

Just a few names. Assume a 10% raise and you could get some good values.
- jmatchett383

stempy is pretty decent for 1M

I think there's some players out there to be had on shorter deals. Quick look:

Patrick Eaves ($650k)
Raphael Diaz ($700k)
Lee Stempniak ($900k)
Erik Condra ($1.25M)
Mark Letestu ($1.25M)
Matt Bartkowski ($1.25M)
Matt Belesky ($1.25M)

Just a few names. Assume a 10% raise and you could get some good values.
- jmatchett383

Diaz and Bartkowski are the only D on your list, and Diaz doesn't have a lot of GP over the last few seasons...without looking into it, is he injury prone or a #7 or 8? I'd talk to Bartkowski's people if I was looking for a D-first guy.

Belesky is playing his way to a really nice raise this year, also. That boy's gonna get paid handsomely if he keeps it up.

I just think their forms of motivation are archaic. Kids don't respond the way they did 20-30 years ago. When coaches call someone out, they get more defensive now. Like "why the (frank) are you calling me out when everyone else is doing the same poop."

It just seems like this team isn't transparent at all. There seems to be no rhyme or reason to their madness imo.
- PhillySportsGuy

we have a problem with this at my job... like i tell everyone else, worry about everyone else when its your job to do so, untill then worry bout yourself... sometimes the expects more from some than others.

I'd prefer not to go through another season like this.
- jmatchett383

Next year is going to be just as bad and there is nothing Hextall can do about it. Without cap room he can't sign UFAs, not that there is any UFAs worth signing to big contracts. The rookies that come in are going to struggle like all rookies do. Unless he can make great hockey deals in a league where actual player for player hockeys deals are rare, this team is going to be just as bad next year.

I just think their forms of motivation are archaic. Kids don't respond the way they did 20-30 years ago. When coaches call someone out, they get more defensive now. Like "why the (frank) are you calling me out when everyone else is doing the same poop."

It just seems like this team isn't transparent at all. There seems to be no rhyme or reason to their madness imo.
- PhillySportsGuy

And that's what's wrong with society today.

That's when the coach pulls the kid aside and tells him, "Because I see something in you that sets you apart from the rest of these schmoes." Kids don't realize that when people try to push them anymore.

I still don't want to move Coburn but I will say if they are bottom 5 at the deadline with this roster I would be willing to move any of the dmen, Read and of course the stuff we probably can't move (18/40) because if this roster is THAT bad all year, its beyond just a few guys not playing well for a small stretch. For Coburn I really would want to get a Zhitnik for Coburn sort of trade. not just trade him for soley picks or the sake of trading him. yes he is struggling but he has been a good dman for this organization. He has worth.

Next year is going to be just as bad and there is nothing Hextall can do about it. Without cap room he can't sign UFAs, not that there is any UFAs worth signing to big contracts. The rookies that come in are going to struggle like all rookies do. Unless he can make great hockey deals in a league where actual player for player hockeys deals are rare, this team is going to be just as bad next year.
- psuhockey

I disagree. There's no reason to think that this team is destined to be just as bad as they currently are next year. I understand the current frustration level. But even this current team should be much better then they are. They just have to get their act together and correct what can be corrected. Also saying that there is nothing that Hextall can do about is not the case either. A lot can change in an off season.

Next year is going to be just as bad and there is nothing Hextall can do about it. Without cap room he can't sign UFAs, not that there is any UFAs worth signing to big contracts. The rookies that come in are going to struggle like all rookies do. Unless he can make great hockey deals in a league where actual player for player hockeys deals are rare, this team is going to be just as bad next year.
- psuhockey

That's why the plan is to draft smartly and build from within.

Also why he's preaching patience.

And that's what's wrong with society today.

That's when the coach pulls the kid aside and tells him, "Because I see something in you that sets you apart from the rest of these schmoes." Kids don't realize that when people try to push them anymore.
- tangent_man

im not saying its right that its needed now adays, but the inclusion of that last line makes all the difference in the world. whether in the sport context or not.

we have a problem with this at my job... like i tell everyone else, worry about everyone else when its your job to do so, untill then worry bout yourself... sometimes the expects more from some than others.
- JoeRussomanno

It's just the worst form of leadership. We can talk about Berube's tactical errors until we're blue in the face, but I believe he's alienated himself from the team. He makes himself seem incompetent when he continues to play Umberger in the top 6 and sit PEB.

Then, he benches MDZ when he's played well for most of the season. He has a few "bad" games in a row and is suddenly benched because Luke Schenn provides the team with a clear upgrade. To me, he just looks over his head. This team is flawed. Anyone can see that, but to say Berube is getting the most out of this roster would be absurd. If it were up to me I'd fire the entire coaching staff from Berube to Murray.

A team can't be afraid of being chewed out or benched for every mistake. Especially when these rules only seem to apply to certain players.

I disagree. There's no reason to think that this team is destined to be just as bad as they currently are next year. I understand the current frustration level. But even this current team should be much better then they are. They just have to get their act together and correct what can be corrected.
- MJL

So a team without top 3 defensemen is going to somehow get better without being able to sign or trade for top 3 defensemen? Or the rookies are going to come in and play at a top 3 defensemen level right away?

im not saying its right that its needed now adays, but the inclusion of that last line makes all the difference in the world. whether in the sport context or not.
- stayinthefnnet

So a team without top 3 defensemen is going to somehow get better without being able to sign or trade for top 3 defensemen? Or the rookies are going to come in a play at a top 3 defensemen level right away?
- psuhockey

Couple that with lack of NHL caliber forwards in the prospect ranks.. Could be a few more years until we really put forth a quality team.

It's just the worst form of leadership. We can talk about Berube's tactical errors until we're blue in the face, but I believe he's alienated himself from the team. He makes himself seem incompetent when he continues to play Umberger in the top 6 and sit PEB.

Then, he benches MDZ when he's played well for most of the season. He has a few "bad" games in a row and is suddenly benched because Luke Schenn provides the team with a clear upgrade. To me, he just looks over his head. This team is flawed. Anyone can see that, but to say Berube is getting the most out of this roster would be absurd. If it were up to me I'd fire the entire coaching staff from Berube to Murray.

A team can't be afraid of being chewed out or benched for every mistake. Especially when these rules only seem to apply to certain players.
- PhillySportsGuy

ive been a fire berube guy fire a while now.

- tangent_man

i think thats the difference a lot of times between the good coaches, bosses, supervisors, parents, ect.

make the person understand why they are seemingly subjected to harsher criticism.

wanting to not disappoint someone you respect sometimes works out a lot better and has a lot harder pull on someone than merely trying to prevent some jerk who you obviously think has it out for you chewing you out one more time.

And that's what's wrong with society today.

That's when the coach pulls the kid aside and tells him, "Because I see something in you that sets you apart from the rest of these schmoes." Kids don't realize that when people try to push them anymore.
- tangent_man

I've never believed calling a player out in public does him any good. The Flyers seem to live by this method. Murray should exhaust all other forms of motivation before calling Hagg out in public. He's 19 years old spending his first season in the states likely without any family. This is a major adjustment for him. Give the kid a (frank)ing break.

It's just the worst form of leadership. We can talk about Berube's tactical errors until we're blue in the face, but I believe he's alienated himself from the team. He makes himself seem incompetent when he continues to play Umberger in the top 6 and sit PEB.

Then, he benches MDZ when he's played well for most of the season. He has a few "bad" games in a row and is suddenly benched because Luke Schenn provides the team with a clear upgrade. To me, he just looks over his head. This team is flawed. Anyone can see that, but to say Berube is getting the most out of this roster would be absurd. If it were up to me I'd fire the entire coaching staff from Berube to Murray.

A team can't be afraid of being chewed out or benched for every mistake. Especially when these rules only seem to apply to certain players.
- PhillySportsGuy

I read responses like this, and wonder where it's comng from. This team has been mistake prone all season long. Blown coverage mistakes all over the ice. Fundamental mistakes all over the ice. If Berube was chewing players out and benching them for mistakes, why haven't there been a hell of a lot more benchings? If anything, that's where Berube has gone wrong. He's been very lenient. Also if you read the comments by both the players, and the coach, he hasn't been benching players for making isolated mistakes. He's been benching players because he feels their play as a whole has dropped off. In Del Zotto's case he felt his defense as a whole was slipping, and wasn't making good decisions moving up on the play. In Macdonald's case, he felt he wasn't being aggressive enough, or moving the puck well enough.

I read responses like this, and wonder where it's comng from. This team has been mistake prone all season long. Blown coverage mistakes all over the ice. Fundamental mistakes all over the ice. If Berube was chewing players out and benching them for mistakes, why haven't there been a hell of a lot more benchings? If anything, that's where Berube has gone wrong. He's been very lenient. Also if you read the comments by both the players, and the coach, he hasn't been benching players for making isolated mistakes. He's been benching players because he feels their play as a whole has dropped off. In Del Zotto's case he felt his defense as a whole was slipping, and wasn't making good decisions moving up on the play. In Macdonald's case, he felt he wasn't being aggressive enough, or moving the puck well enough.
- MJL

Do you believe Berube is getting the most out of this roster?