I'm Ok with the Hartnell deal simply because Hartnell's buyout is way too painful. With Columbus having 3 3rds(not sure when they acquired them) maybe a 3rd rounde3r instead of a 4th rounder.

I dunno... I actually am on board with most of his moves so far.

- 3rd for McGinn,
- finding value in MDZ, Schultz, Colie,
- Bellemare,
- getting Emery to take a 40% haircut,
- flushing Rosehill down the toilet,
- the cap-number for Kimmo, although that didn't work out.

I don't even mind the Hartsy trade, since I wasn't holding much hope out for the next couple of years anyway. Rinaldo was vexing, but at least that contract can be buried 100%.

It seems like there have been a lot of moves that he could have made, that he thankfully didn't/hasn't/won't. AKA the kind of poop Homer would do. He probably could have moved Vinny out this summer... at a tremendous cost in assets and retained salary... and turned around and blown that money on another AMac or something.

TL;DR: not perfect, but already better than Homer.
- Tomahawk

Obviously having Timonen this season would've helped, but how much a real difference would he have made? The truth of the matter is the contract was a bad contract. Bonus money that was probably easily obtainable, just to save this year. Imagine if he had played all year, and the Flyers would've had to carry 1.5M bonus overage on the cap next year. In addition to any possibly buyout dead money they'd have to carry. Timonen's contract wasn't a very good contract at all.

I trust and believe in Hextall. But I laugh when I read AKA the kind of poop Holmgren would do. He wasn't a perfect GM, and made some mistakes like any GM has. But he also did a ton of good. Of course that's just swept away as if it didn't exist. Hextall has been the GM for a very short time, but saying he's already better then Holmgren is laughable. Until Hextall takes a team that was a loser and builds them into a cup finalist, he's not better then Holmgren. Holmgren put a strong core in place for Hextall to work with. The reality is to this point, Hextall hasn't accomplished anything, but he has to be given a chance.

Not enough term to have justified the trade on that basis, IMO.
- bmeltzer

Agreed, if they had gotten a 2nd back instead of a 4th, I would have been fine with it though

Hartnell was a physical player.. He is not here, he has been replaced by someone who has been horrible. Does that make a difference. I would say yes. Would Hartnell make them a much better team.. No, but at least they would bring more to the table every night. He was a guy that was also we'll liked in the room. That hurts a team when that type guy is moved.They could have got more for Hartnell. As I said before.. Leo Komarov was out there as a UFA. A smart move would have been to pick him up and trade Hartnell for a pick ( if they wanted rid of him)
- 3flyerkids

May have been a smart move but wholly unrealistic. Hexy didn't turn down picks to take RJ, that's for sure.

Ultimately I think it's a loss to say what Hartnell would be doing here right now because the undisciplined play that got him traded would just have him in the press box anyway. Hartnell was loved but keeping him (when he wasn't changing his game) would be completely going against the grain of what they're trying to instill in the kids. Maybe the argument could've been made that they could have just stripped the A from him but even that doesn't change the fact that he was the oil to Berube's water.

Hartnell was a physical player.. He is not here, he has been replaced by someone who has been horrible. Does that make a difference. I would say yes. Would Hartnell make them a much better team.. No, but at least they would bring more to the table every night. He was a guy that was also we'll liked in the room. That hurts a team when that type guy is moved.They could have got more for Hartnell. As I said before.. Leo Komarov was out there as a UFA. A smart move would have been to pick him up and trade Hartnell for a pick ( if they wanted rid of him)
- 3flyerkids

They did trade hartnell for a pick, they were just forced into taking back a less hideous contract Bc hartnells deal is in fact that bad. If hartnell was worth a 2nd or 3rd rounder on the market, Hexy would have done a lot better than umberger and a 4th. Flyers wanted no part of umbergers deal

I'm Ok with the Hartnell deal simply because Hartnell's buyout is way too painful. With Columbus having 3 3rds(not sure when they acquired them) maybe a 3rd rounde3r instead of a 4th rounder.
- jstross

Yeah, Hextall should have insisted on getting our own 3rd rounder back from Columbus.

I'm doubting even a second rounder. It was horrible when Homer traded for him, we were told to wait and not judge it immediately. It turns out that it was worse than it looked at first glance.

I can't believe all the words and effort that have been spent by people defending Schenn's lackluster play. So what if he was a healthy scratch in Toronto we were told, Toronto just wasn't using him right. He was a healthy scratch when we got him and he'll be a healthy scratch when he leaves here.
- Flyers_01

I think in 4 seasons with the Leafs, he was a healthy scratch 5 or 6 games. That doesn't make a player a healthy scratch. What you left out was what he also was at times with the Leafs, a 20+ minute defenseman.

The Umberger/Hartnell comparison is nice and all, but if the loss of Hartnell made the rest of the team play soft, then there are more issues at play here.

In the Lindros era, the first hit of the game set the tempo. When Eric (or whoever) threw the first big check, the crowd got into it and the team followed suit. Today, if Rinaldo throws a big check and it's not followed by a penalty, the team considers itself lucky and continues on its timid way to not causing a continuous parade to the penalty box.

Who throws a clean, hard check these days to start a game? Luke might eventually get one, but doesn't set out to set the pace at the beginning of the game. As the saying goes, this isn't your father's Flyers team.
- tangent_man

Flyers aren't a hard team to play against. If you score a goal against the Flyers around the net, you don't get knocked on your ass enough. Flyers have some players who can follow Rinaldo's lead and play a more physical game.

Obviously having Timonen this season would've helped, but how much a real difference would he have made? The truth of the matter is the contract was a bad contract. Bonus money that was probably easily obtainable, just to save this year. Imagine if he had played all year, and the Flyers would've had to carry 1.5M bonus overage on the cap next year. In addition to any possibly buyout dead money they'd have to carry. Timonen's contract wasn't a very good contract at all.

I trust and believe in Hextall. But I laugh when I read AKA the kind of poop Holmgren would do. He wasn't a perfect GM, and made some mistakes like any GM has. But he also did a ton of good. Of course that's just swept away as if it didn't exist. Hextall has been the GM for a very short time, but saying he's already better then Holmgren is laughable. Until Hextall takes a team that was a loser and builds them into a cup finalist, he's not better then Holmgren. Holmgren put a strong core in place for Hextall to work with. The reality is to this point, Hextall hasn't accomplished anything, but he has to be given a chance.
- MJL

I agree with this and this logic is why I'm largely okay with a rough season this year. This can be Hextall's re-tooling year. He doesn't need to blow it up, trade for an all star or cut loose 4/6ths of the D. But wait for the deadline, assess value and make adjustments where need be.

Really the only thing that would upset me is seeing the team struggle on and off all year on their way to picking outside of the top 12.

Flyers aren't a hard team to play against. If you score a goal against the Flyers around the net, you don't get knocked on your ass enough. Flyers have some players who can follow Rinaldo's lead and play a more physical game.
- MJL

I wish they'd see that and act on it.

With all due respect I think it's somewhat foolish to assume this team is soft because Hartnell is no longer here to set a tempo. It's pretty clear that the mandate to take less penalties has had a big effect on how the Flyers are playing. They are attempting to be less physical and play to a strength of defensive positioning. I would like to see them be a bit more physical as well but I can't cite Hartnell as the missing variable. Berube has a plan in mind that involves discipline all over the ice. In fact, I don't think it would be too big of a stretch to assume Hartnell would be getting healthy scratched right now if he were still here.
- hereticpride

One of the things that happens when you become a better team defensively, and play to a strength of defensive positioning, is that the interference, tripping, and holding penalties are lessened by nature. And that doesn't count the penalties that are just from a lack of discipline. I don't think for a second that there is a mandate from the coaching staff to play less physical. The Flyers want to be a team that is hard on the puck, and pressure the puck. But do it legally.

Obviously having Timonen this season would've helped, but how much a real difference would he have made? The truth of the matter is the contract was a bad contract. Bonus money that was probably easily obtainable, just to save this year. Imagine if he had played all year, and the Flyers would've had to carry 1.5M bonus overage on the cap next year. In addition to any possibly buyout dead money they'd have to carry. Timonen's contract wasn't a very good contract at all.

I trust and believe in Hextall. But I laugh when I read AKA the kind of poop Holmgren would do. He wasn't a perfect GM, and made some mistakes like any GM has. But he also did a ton of good. Of course that's just swept away as if it didn't exist. Hextall has been the GM for a very short time, but saying he's already better then Holmgren is laughable. Until Hextall takes a team that was a loser and builds them into a cup finalist, he's not better then Holmgren. Holmgren put a strong core in place for Hextall to work with. The reality is to this point, Hextall hasn't accomplished anything, but he has to be given a chance.
- MJL

I don't know how you can definitively say the bonus money was probably easily obtainable without knowing what the bonuses were.

I agree tho that its hard to say already better. Homer was good at the beginning but I really think he screwed this team up at the end. Hextall is going to have to be very creative to fix this mess without giving up assets they don't want to move.

The problem is the flyers are playing timid and not hard to play against. Berube must go now. A quote from Luke Schenn sums it up. Basically afraid of making a mistake and you can sit in the pressbox. Problem is...coburn has been really really bad and yet he gets a pass. Same with umberger. There is no ryme or rythem for berube and seems to be throwing crap at the wall and see if it fits. He is over his head and must be replaced.
- jmdodgeser4

I don't think that's the case at all. Look at how many mistakes that have been made up and down the lineup? Has Berube scratched them for it? I'm pretty sure that Berube is communicating with the team. And telling them what he's looking for. Coburn has made his fair share of mistakes, but the effort is there. He ran over and took out Mason on that one goal, but he was at least busting his ass to get back. Berube isn't going to scratch a player for that. But if you're standing still around the net, and not moving your feet and competing, like Luke Schenn has done on numerous occasions. You'll find yourself in the press box.

Mase or Rayzor today?

From what the beat writers were reporting yesterday, Michael Del Zotto is in, Luke Schenn out.

Seravalli tweeted these lines from practice:
12-28-93
10-49-17
18-14-24
36-78-76

15-47
55-5
8-32
- Jsaquella

That's an interesting 1st pair D

Mase or Rayzor today?
- Hextall271

Both

12 Michael Raffl - 28 Claude Giroux - 93 Jakub Voracek
10 Brayden Schenn - 49 Scott Laughton - 17 Wayne Simmonds
18 R.J. Umberger - 14 Sean Couturier - 24 Matt Read
36 Zac Rinaldo - 78 Pierre-Edouard Bellemare - 76 Chris VandeVelde

I prefer:


12 Michael Raffl - 28 Claude Giroux - 93 Jakub Voracek
10 Brayden Schenn - 14 Sean Couturier - 17 Wayne Simmonds
78 Pierre-Edouard Bellemare - 49 Scott Laughton - 24 Matt Read
36 Zac Rinaldo - 76 Chris VandeVelde - 18 R.J. Umberger

Line 2 was playing well before Schenn was moved up to L1. L3 is much better offensively and the 4th line in just energy/defensive line which is all these players are capable of.

I don't know how you can definitively say the bonus money was probably easily obtainable without knowing what the bonuses were.

I agree tho that its hard to say already better. Homer was good at the beginning but I really think he screwed this team up at the end. Hextall is going to have to be very creative to fix this mess without giving up assets they don't want to move.
- nastyflyergirl

I can't definitively say what they were. But Timonen was going to get his money, and it was probably simple bonuses like 500K for 20 game played marks.
I disagree that Holmgren really screwed this team up at the end. The only move right now that is looking like a big issue is the Lecavalier deal. I don't see a big mess. I see a strong core of players put in place by Holmgren. Including Giroux, Voracek, Simmonds, Read, Couturier, B Schenn, Raffl, and Laughton. They have some good defenseman, that are being asked to play in a bigger role then they should. And some quality defense prospects in Gostisbehere, Morin, and Haag. Which hopefully will correct one of the biggest issues under Holmgren. Not drafting and developing defenseman well.

I prefer:


12 Michael Raffl - 28 Claude Giroux - 93 Jakub Voracek
10 Brayden Schenn - 14 Sean Couturier - 17 Wayne Simmonds
78 Pierre-Edouard Bellemare - 49 Scott Laughton - 24 Matt Read
36 Zac Rinaldo - 76 Chris VandeVelde - 18 R.J. Umberger

Line 2 was playing well before Schenn was moved up to L1. L3 is much better offensively and the 4th line in just energy/defensive line which is all these players are capable of.
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

Line 4 would get eaten alive with The Kings having the last change.

Line 4 would get eaten alive with The Kings having the last change.
- hereticpride

Line 4 only gets 5 minutes of ice time. Not relevant.

Hartnell was a physical player.. He is not here, he has been replaced by someone who has been horrible. Does that make a difference. I would say yes. Would Hartnell make them a much better team.. No, but at least they would bring more to the table every night. He was a guy that was also we'll liked in the room. That hurts a team when that type guy is moved.They could have got more for Hartnell. As I said before.. Leo Komarov was out there as a UFA. A smart move would have been to pick him up and trade Hartnell for a pick ( if they wanted rid of him)
- 3flyerkids

No. No. No. Hartnell has sucked in C-Bus as well. Both of these players are declining. We will just have to watch RJ do it for a shorter period of time.

Line 4 only gets 5 minutes of ice time. Not relevant.
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

Let's hope that's all they get, but I see #18 getting his 12 minutes or so.

They did trade hartnell for a pick, they were just forced into taking back a less hideous contract Bc hartnells deal is in fact that bad. If hartnell was worth a 2nd or 3rd rounder on the market, Hexy would have done a lot better than umberger and a 4th. Flyers wanted no part of umbergers deal
- Just5

Exactly. And Hartnell has been just as bad for the Bee Jays this year.

Line 4 only gets 5 minutes of ice time. Not relevant.
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

It's relevant late in the game when the other team has been able to rotate four good lines and our three are gassed.

No. No. No. Hartnell has sucked in C-Bus as well. Both of these players are declining. We will just have to watch RJ do it for a shorter period of time.
- section32

He has 5 goals and 15 points. Umberger has 2 and 4