OK. Then every team other than LA he would be a top pair guy with. And even that is close. Muzzin plays with Doughty when everyone is healthy or not suspended.
Maybe Nashville because both Weber and Seabrook are both RH.


Some of the teams you listed have guys with very high ceilings. Boston and Minny but as of right now, Seabrook is better thateither Hamilton and Brodin.
- Elbows15

All anybody has to notice is who is paired together in the last 10 minutes of a 1 goal game, doesn't matter whether the Hawks are up or down - Keith and Seabrook.

OK. Then every team other than LA he would be a top pair guy with. And even that is close. Muzzin plays with Doughty when everyone is healthy or not suspended.
Maybe Nashville because both Weber and Seabrook are both RH.


Some of the teams you listed have guys with very high ceilings. Boston and Minny but as of right now, Seabrook is better thateither Hamilton and Brodin.
- Elbows15

See my previous post for an explanation of my overall thinking.

I looked at guys who are #1 D-men with similar skill sets to Seabrook and added them to the list right away. For instance, Suter and Seabrook play similar games, so you wouldn't pair them together, even though Seabrook is (currently) better than Brodin. Likewise with Detroit and Kronwall, etc.

Righty-righty pairs make a difference too, which is why I wouldn't play him with Weber (that and because I'm a believer that Seth Jones will be a star).

For the record, Muzzin's possession stats are through the roof, and it's not because of Doughty.

I agree with you (though Tanner wouldn't). But I could also make an argument the other way if I had to. You asked for a devil's advocate list and I gave you all the teams who could conceivably play Seabrook on a second pairing.

In Arizona's case, you don't pair OEL with a shutdown defenseman because you don't have to. Yandle produces more points, and points are always considered a top pairing trait, even if I personally wouldn't value them that highly, so by default you either play Ekman-Larsson or Seabrook with him. Since OEL is almost as good as Seabrook defensively, and has history with Yandle already, you would see Seabrook as a #3.

You can't just say "Team A sucks" or "Players A and B suck worse than Seabrook" as justification for why he would be a top pairing defenseman because this isn't fantasy hockey. There are lots of other factors to consider.
- Sandus

Yes, I am aware of the other factors. One of which is Seabrook is anything but a shutdown defender. Seabrook would be utilized on any of those teams the same way Q uses him. As part of a pair that drives possession.

EDIT: Meaning that Seabrook is anything but strictly a shutdown D-man.

He lived in the Chicago area for quite awhile after his career was over. By all accounts I have heard, he was a nice guy.
- Elbows15

You heard right

All anybody has to notice is who is paired together in the last 10 minutes of a 1 goal game, doesn't matter whether the Hawks are up or down - Keith and Seabrook.
- RickJ

Therein lies the beauty of Hammer and Oduya, Rick. They get the toughest QoC on the Hawks.

Its why I said for the whole offseason that moving Leddy over Oduya was the move to make for taking a shot at winning the Cup this season. It would have changed the way Q uses his defensemen making the team weaker overall.

It would have put all the hard minutes on Keith and Seabrook.

You heard right
- 6628

Some kids of friends went to school with Smith's kids.

Injuries don't always factor in. Heatley has almost no injury history (car accident excluded), but he turned to hot garbage really fast.

Anyway, I took your challenge and made a list of teams where Seabrook could conceivably not make the top pairing. Lots of opinions and variables here, particularly systems and coaching styles of the other teams. In a lot of cases I know I would personally rather have Seabrook, but I also likely subconsciously overrate him as a hometown fan.

Teams that could potentially not play Seabrook on a top pairing:
Arizona (assuming OEL and Yandle are a pair)
Boston
Calgary (would personally take him over Wideman, but I could see it either way)
Detroit
Florida
Los Angeles (with Voynov on top line and not in jail)
Minnesota
Montreal (would personally take him over Markov)
Nashville
Rangers
St. Louis

Certainly not the whole league, but more teams than you would think.
- Sandus

Seems to me like you underrate him...by a lot.

JFC

Seems to me like you underrate him...by a lot.

JFC

- Ogilthorpe2

And yet Patrick Sharp was on the 2014 Olympic team and Brent Seabrook was not.

And yet Patrick Sharp was on the 2014 Olympic team and Brent Seabrook was not.
- Sandus

Seabrook > Hamhuis and Bouwmeester

The only reason Seabs didn't make the team was because of Babcock's insistence on balancing his lefty/righty pairings.

Also Sharp sucks.

Nordstrom and Dahlbeck can play. 44 will benefit by getting regular playing time the remainder of the year and should be a lock for a regular shift by next season.

It's very early, but the roll they are getting on is reminiscent of the long undefeated string 2 years ago. The forwards are effectively getting engaged in the defensive zone, and the D is moving the puck up quickly. Different guys are stepping up each night, and Saad looked all world last night.

During the 7-6-1, they were firing a bunch of shots and dominating people, but the 'puck luck' just wasn't there. Now it is. Rebounds are doing things like ending up on Saad's stick (vs. MTL) rather than bounding away.

Q is rolling all 4 lines, and Roszy and Dahlbeck were on the ice in the 3rd period while the outcome was still in doubt.

In the upcoming week, they get a middling NJ team that will be playing the 2nd in 2 nights, a Boston team coming off a horrible west coast swing salvaged only by them beating a bad Coyote team, and the NYI who just had STL drop a 6 spot on them. Think the top 2 lines can expose Leddy's weaknesses?

And Morin is in the Sun-Times today with a 'play me or trade me' demand. So we've got that going for us.
- scottak

Past performance says nothing about future match-up outcomes.

Lets see how many of you looking at the coming schedule 3 weeks ago thought: geez, might be lucky to come out with .500 as 7 of those 10 games were vs teams with strg winning records...and what happens they go 9-1.

Point is you can get beat by any team any night and they could go 0-3 on the rest of this trip....stuff happens.

Morin is gone....Merry Christmas Jeremy!

Seabrook > Hamhuis and Bouwmeester

The only reason Seabs didn't make the team was because of Babcock's insistence on balancing his lefty/righty pairings.

Also Sharp sucks.
- Ogilthorpe2

somethings never change even when the guy has been LTIR for a month!

This team has been in almost every game: the 2 clunkers vs wings and nucks. They had great chances to win the every other game they lost.

Goalies stoned them in 3 or 4 of those games and just could not get a bounce.

Top PK, top defensive team, top 3rd period team, a threat to explode offensively any game at any time = the best team at this point

somethings never change even when the guy has been LTIR for a month!
- bogiedoc

Thriving without him too. I'm not saying, I'm just saying.

This team has been in almost every game: the 2 clunkers vs wings and nucks. They had great chances to win the every other game they lost.

Goalies stoned them in 3 or 4 of those games and just could not get a bounce.

Top PK, top defensive team, top 3rd period team, a threat to explode offensively any game at any time = the best team at this point
- bogiedoc

From a devils advocate perspective, just looking around, its hard to find anyone else playing as well as Chicago.

Tampa Bay is really the only other team I could argue. The rest of the East is so erratic week to week

In the west LAK and SJS cant seem to find a way to go on a roll, ANA isnt good when Andersen isnt standing on his head as of late, Nashvilles offense seems to be slowing back down, and STL has looked pretty mediocre as of late and probably worse if it wasnt for Tarasenko

Past performance says nothing about future match-up outcomes.

Lets see how many of you looking at the coming schedule 3 weeks ago thought: geez, might be lucky to come out with .500 as 7 of those 10 games were vs teams with strg winning records...and what happens they go 9-1.

Point is you can get beat by any team any night and they could go 0-3 on the rest of this trip....stuff happens.

Morin is gone....Merry Christmas Jeremy!
- bogiedoc

I thought they were going to run the table on the circus trip.

Thriving without him too. I'm not saying, I'm just saying.
- Ogilthorpe2

Reports say he may be in line up on Tuesday.

Reports say he may be in line up on Tuesday.
- Elbows15

Enter "The Cooler".

The streak ends Tuesday. Book it.

He was OK. Didnt look glaringly out of place or above his head. Made some nice plays/reads and almost had a beautiful assist on his first or second shift on the ice. The fact that he actually got some 3rd period shifts in a 1 goal game says that at least Q thought he held his own.

First impressions are that he looks better than Runblad.
- TheTrob

My guess is Q and Stanbo are hiding Dahlbeck for a cheap 5-6d next year since he will be an RFA. Otherwise, one would think he'd be first up even ahead of TVR.

Looking at the Hawks system, they can field an excellent team even with a static cap if they can trade Bickell and Sharp for zero salary, and if quasi-blue chippers like Teuvo, McNeil and Pokka/Johns can step in.

Enter "The Cooler".

The streak ends Tuesday. Book it.
- Ogilthorpe2

You forgot Dano.


*books*

Seabrook > Hamhuis and Bouwmeester

The only reason Seabs didn't make the team was because of Babcock's insistence on balancing his lefty/righty pairings.

Also Sharp sucks.
- Ogilthorpe2

Ahhh...the salad days. When one of the Hawks leading scorers "sucks" in Ogi's eyes.

If Sharp "sucks" the Hawks are sure in a great spot.

I've seen "suck"...I remember "suck"...and there ain't much that qualifies on this club.

Occasional disappointment...sure...but that's about it.

Ahhh...the salad days. When one of the Hawks leading scorers "sucks" in Ogi's eyes.

If Sharp "sucks" the Hawks are sure in a great spot.

I've seen "suck"...I remember "suck"...and there ain't much that qualifies on this club.

Occasional disappointment...sure...but that's about it.
- ArlingtonRob

Addition by subtraction. Playing their best hockey of the year since he left, and miracle of all miracles, they can still score goals without him! Oh, snap.

Ergo, he sucks.

WTH just happened here?

Addition by subtraction. Playing their best hockey of the year since he left, and miracle of all miracles, they can still score goals without him! Oh, snap.

Ergo, he sucks.
- Ogilthorpe2

Fine...have it your way.

The word demand is a big stretch, written by a sports writer to get some attention to his article . Far more probable is the agent went to Bowman and quietly asked if he could explore some trade possibilities for Morin. Even the agent will have seen that Nordstrom has beaten his client out of a job.
The reality is Morin has nowhere to go and the Hawks could make him watch until his contract expires.
- RickJ

RickJ, you got this completely correct...all done quietly, without tweets from the baby hayes about "Free Morin."

The writing was on the wall and the kid probably just doesn't pass through waviers if sent down because he CAN shoot the puck (has shown that in lower levels) and injuries occur so he isn't gonna be let go implulsively or b/c he feels he isn't getting tick.
They will get something closer to the deadline.

but the key is Nordstom can fit and Morin was given the chance to fit...

See my previous post for an explanation of my overall thinking.

I looked at guys who are #1 D-men with similar skill sets to Seabrook and added them to the list right away. For instance, Suter and Seabrook play similar games, so you wouldn't pair them together, even though Seabrook is (currently) better than Brodin. Likewise with Detroit and Kronwall, etc.

Righty-righty pairs make a difference too, which is why I wouldn't play him with Weber (that and because I'm a believer that Seth Jones will be a star).
Teams that could potentially not play Seabrook on a top pairing:
Arizona (assuming OEL and Yandle are a pair)
Boston
Calgary (would personally take him over Wideman, but I could see it either way)
Detroit
Florida
Los Angeles (with Voynov on top line and not in jail)
Minnesota
Montreal (would personally take him over Markov)
Nashville
Rangers
St. Louis

Certainly not the whole league, but more teams than you would think.

For the record, Muzzin's possession stats are through the roof, and it's not because of Doughty.
- Sandus

...and Hammer possession stats suck...
I am a believer that Seth Jones is a great kid who is improving but stardom is far from there...hell, they already have ONE overated defender in Weber whose frank gets held b/c he can shoot the puck like a cannon, but still gets out worked, and beat defenisvely if he can isn't able to use his other asset his size.strength.

I see your list and am laughing...in the same way I did years ago here where Seabrook was called slow and flat footed.

A well overpaid "paid like a star" Pietrangelo wishes he was playing as well defensively as Seabrook can, but we know theat teams undertand from the Detroit/Chicago and originally Montrteal style is based on carriers up-ice.

I have not doubt if there was dispersal draft that the present date, Seabrook could potentially get his name called by all teams above to be the second guy in a first pairings.
Seabrook is a lot more physical, cerebral and quick than most big defenders. The mobility is there.
Tell you what, since you wear the Bluenote I will give your injured defender Jay Bouwmeester for his strength (not the disillusioned fan eye) and that is for being a terrific one one on one defender on guys bearing in...he is able to keep balance make many plays / breakups without taking the penalties, a brilliant ability...that Seabrook also has, but it's very difficult to isolate when you have a press corps and stat bloated media whose eyes peruse paper stats over actual play.

Dougthy can be a beast defensively and we know what he can do the other way...and he feels reponsible to attempt to DO IT, if the team needs him in overdrive.

I am not so sure if Seabrook played next to him, that any other jamoke on the Kings could play better.

Minny's Suter would love him next to him but the Brodin kid has been a revelation, but he is NOT Seabrook.

FLORIDA-REALLY?
that is where you take your argument and House of Card it.

Subban is still a stick-first deeman and IS getting better in his end, but "personally" Seabrook should have had HIS Olympic spot...but that is moot since they kicked booty w/o another smart defender over offensive man.


You certainly ASSumed too much on OEL and Yandle by light years.
I love OEL and was arguably was the first to rank him highly but,
he is not there or a cure eh?,
and Yandle is so good they are still trying to find a taker on him to get a really good forward...and no one will even offer a really good forward.

When I started watching with six teams in the league there were only about five RIGHT HANDER defensmean in the league, and it was always the better lefthanders who were asked to "fill" the right side, and teams were mostly comprised of left hander defenseman.

So this argument of too many right hander on the teams listed above sounds like the same horsebleep YOUR team tried to see your fans by sending a better defender Polak to Toronto for Gunny.

So that is little or no reason that would deter any NHL team from picking up Seabrook over CAP, and other pressing issues...they would make space.
You are totally under-rated his IQ skill level and agility, but that happens with a more than few bigger defenseman....as a kid I never saw those top Montreal defenders as more than good,
and the press wasn't hyping them and their stats did little to throw any of them into the media limelight (oh maybe Serge Savard had 30 goals 60 points), Guy Lapointe Larry Robinson, Jim Roberts all, like SEABROOK, just went about the business.

The Bruins would send three of those crappy youngsters defenseman for him, because you, me, and the Bruins CANNOT PREDICT any of them or the young guys on the teams you listed EVER GET there in terms of polish and savvy. (We can all talk about how LEDDY was the best player in the Isle's lost the last game...just like we praised his potential here, but those teams and their good up and coming defenders are just that like LEDDY was ... up and maybe coming...)

It just seems like a non issue --to me lists in general about hockey are....

now you want to talk relvence or different or...

The other night I saw two defenseman lined up "Euro-style" with the right point man being a left hander and the left point being a right hander...but it wasn't for a PP, it was for an ENTIRE GAME.

If it was the late 1970's and you told me in the future this would happen, I probably would have been willing to bet all I had it wouldn't ... but the sport evolves and you can't count on things from our old viewings necessarily fir anymore.

The paradign shifts
but it didn't shift away from Seabrook being a really good strong over-all defender and attacker that all teams would love...and where I wear the Indianhead (my heart) have very little to do with the reality of it...

I am not going back to correct spelling, gotta sleep, try your best to get my intent here, ok?