I look at it from the opposite view. Keith has the luxury of wandering over a disgusting amount of ice, at times playing a high risk/high reward style because he knows that if he gambles and loses, Seabs will be where he is supposed to be.

Hammer can do it too, but Seabrook should be retained if at all possible IMO. I'd part with anyone not named Toews, Kane, Keith, Hjalmarsson before I'd ship Seabs.
- Ogilthorpe2

This.

Yup...this is the very problem and even if the Cap expands those crazy GMs would just offer more.
- wiz1901

Four quick notes, none related to this particular post, and then I have to go back to work.

1) I'm not a Blues fan, I'm a Blackhawks season ticket holder, and I have seen Seabrook's entire career (since back in the ABC line days)
2) Money no object and in a salary cap free world, I don't even entertain the fact of getting rid of him. I was responding to the assertion that Seabrook's value is as high to any team as it is to the Hawks, which is arguably untrue.
3) I don't actually believe what I said about the Olympics, I was simply trying to call out Ogie on the "underrating" of players (Patrick Sharp)
4) If Erik Gudbranson was paired with Duncan Keith, he would have 40-50 points a year and they would be the best defensive pairing in the league.

I look at it from the opposite view. Keith has the luxury of wandering over a disgusting amount of ice, at times playing a high risk/high reward style because he knows that if he gambles and loses, Seabs will be where he is supposed to be.

Hammer can do it too, but Seabrook should be retained if at all possible IMO. I'd part with anyone not named Toews, Kane, Keith, Hjalmarsson before I'd ship Seabs.
- Ogilthorpe2

IMO, what differentiates the 'Hawks from other elite teams is the blue line quality. Keith-Seabrook is as good as it gets from a top pairing, Hammer-Oduya would be the top line on many teams, including Team Sweden. If you lose any of those four, the blue line starts to look on par with other top teams, not better, and the edge is lost. The forwards on other teams like the Pens, Kings and Ducks have always been on the same level, arguably better (the Pens at least).

So yeah, you have to keep Seabrook and even Oduya if at all possible. Hjalmarsson took a discount, maybe they will too.

I don't think this is the last chance for these 'Hawks by any means, but the first year or two of the new deal for the twins will likely result in lean years for the 'Hawks as they retool for another run. Hard to see them missing the playoffs in any year, but also hard to see them being true Cup contenders next year, and maybe even the year after. But Stan re-tooled once and he can do it again.

Do you ever wonder if the other fan boards are having these type discussions?

Or are they akin to that Facebook Blackhawk fans page where the bandwagon has canonized each player from Darling on up and you get to see the jewelry, tattoos and brand new expensive jerseys the "true" fans have bought for themselves and their pets...
why does that guy keep deleting my posts????????
- wiz1901

Hahaha, don't change, Wiz

Thought JJ has contended all along that the reason Johnny O was kept instead of Leddy is that he and his agent have let the Hawks know that they'd resign for a cheap cap hit.

- vabeachbear

It's what I've heard.

Begs a question, why keep the older guy if you know you're also facing cap trouble in 1-2 years? There was a market for Oduya this summer, too.

I trust my source on this. Doesn't mean it won't change though.

IMO, what differentiates the 'Hawks from other elite teams is the blue line quality. Keith-Seabrook is as good as it gets from a top pairing, Hammer-Oduya would be the top line on many teams, including Team Sweden. If you lose any of those four, the blue line starts to look on par with other top teams, not better, and the edge is lost. The forwards on other teams like the Pens, Kings and Ducks have always been on the same level, arguably better (the Pens at least).

So yeah, you have to keep Seabrook and even Oduya if at all possible. Hjalmarsson took a discount, maybe they will too.

I don't think this is the last chance for these 'Hawks by any means, but the first year or two of the new deal for the twins will likely result in lean years for the 'Hawks as they retool for another run. Hard to see them missing the playoffs in any year, but also hard to see them being true Cup contenders next year, and maybe even the year after. But Stan re-tooled once and he can do it again.
- RomanF

great post

Seabrook is not at Johnny Boychuk's level? Was that a typo?
- RickJ

Maybe he meant that Seabs doesn't quite have that edge and snarl of Boychuck and the Isles will be in a position where they are gonna be hard pressed to pay bigtime to keep him....he certainly didn't hurt his value by walking into the Isle's dressing room and baiscally taking away pp time and being an instant leader.

Lol Boychuck is better than Seabrook

See if Bruins fans will agree with that one.

Hahaha, don't change, Wiz
- John Jaeckel

I am already missing The Walking Dead.
They are casting actors for the spin off show.

I have met Robert Kirkman awhile back in my comic con days as the king of Comics, and I wish I had his number prior to the development of this new show, because to me the best scenario was the world changes prior to a NHL game and both teams are in the stadium before the world goes to hell.
They become the united group to find a way to a new world order.
Who better prepared for zombies than NHL players already quick, tough, and know how to use the sticks?

Maybe I get my buddy Blackhawk Derrick to write this as his next screenplay...

Lol Boychuck is better than Seabrook

See if Bruins fans will agree with that one.
- biegs

He's not Seabrook, that's for sure. However, I still wouldn't mind seeing Boychuk in a Hawks sweater - if the salary cap didn't exist.

Hope T+K are comfortable about getting grilled on their new $10.5 mil hits and carrying the team or taking the next step if this cap remains stagnant

Hard to watch half the team get gutted for them and it being directly tied to their matching highest cap hits in the league

I hope this lights a fire under their butt this postseason knowing it could be the last hurrah for a while

My understanding is the cap will be 75 -76 despite the loonies drop...the franchise's are making their concern know to the bossman because 30 GMs are frightened they could mess this thing up and backslide.
- wiz1901

I hope you're correct. The loonie is headed towards 6 bits and I can't imagine seeing the 7 teams up North dealing too well with that, even the Leafs.

If the cap stays about even, the 'Hawks will have to shed $15-16M of current cap hits to keep the defence and re-sign guys like Saad and Kruger. The net increase $8.4M of the wonder twins next season only complicates things further.

Guess we shall see, eh?

Some thoughts:

What makes this team great? I love Jonathan Toews, Kane's a great player. Having them, you are half way to a great team, year in and year out.

That said, this team's on-ice system is all about the defense, not just stopping pucks but getting the puck out of their end quickly, pinching to maintain pressure, blocking shots, taking away time and space. The truth is, the Hawks' top 4, and although he looks like a cadaver warmed-over most nights, Michal Rozsival, is as good a collection of guys who can do all this as there is.

Rick mentioned Detroit. They want to play the same style, but their best defenseman is a pretty good Niklas Kronwall, who is probably on a good (and healthy) day the equal of Hjalmarsson.

To my eye, what was the difference between the team that dominated hockey in 2013 and sucked butt in the 2012 playoffs? A huge part of it was getting Oduya acclimated and adding Rozsival. Because not much else really changed.

The Hawks (and everyone else now) know what they have in Saad and Kruger. McNeill clearly has some kind of NHL upside, Danault, TT, Hartman. They can afford to lose Sharp and Bickell. Great to have them this year, especially in the playoffs, but long term, they know they have replacements. And as I have been saying for a year or so now, Saad is really the “replacement” for Sharp, not Hossa.

The bigger question for me is defense and goaltending.

I have also long maintained this system and these defensemen, not to mention 2-3 of the game’s premier defensive forwards, make goalies look better. So logically, intuitively, I would be much more inclined as a GM to “compromise” on my goaltending than I would my defense. Detroit, for example has a goalie who, by most non-biased judgment, is the equal of Corey Crawford. Some honestly feel Howard is a tad better. But the defense in front of him, now minus Nik Lidstrom and Brian Rafalski? Not so great.

Cause and effect.

The question the Hawks need to ask is if you lose Seabrook and Hjalmarsson becomes #2. Who then are 3 and 4, especially if you lose Oduya? The Hawks have not drafted a defenseman high in years. The highest I can recall is Johns and Holl (who they are now trying at forward) in 2010, or Clendening or Fournier in 2011. But those guys are not and never were blue chippers. Keith was a lotto winner. Tiny guy who could really skate who was off the radar of most scouts. Development and his effort made him. Hawks kinda got lucky.

Do you really make the gamble that Johns and Dahlbeck or Clendening are really going to be top 4 guys, and good top 4 guys? Or is this why they went out and got Raanta last year (when no one thought the Hawks needed another goalie), and why Darling feels like someone they really want to evaluate.

Believe me, the Hawks have discussed this at length and might still be. Should be interesting.

Hope T+K are comfortable about getting grilled on their new $10.5 mil hits and carrying the team or taking the next step if this cap remains stagnant

Hard to watch half the team get gutted for them and it being directly tied to their matching highest cap hits in the league

I hope this lights a fire under their butt this postseason knowing it could be the last hurrah for a while
- FourFeathers773

Yeah - because they've disappointed us so often the past 7 years with their unmotivated play.

I don't think you can just sweepingly say the Hawks success revolves exclusively around four back liners.

The hawks success is built around Keith Seabrook Hammer Kane Toews hossa an excellent cast of Sharp Saad Smith Kruger and Oduya company.

If you sacrifice Oduya you better have an adequate defender capable of stepping in and playing that spot without having to scheme and protect him.
That means a veteran presence unless the organization thinks one of their youngsters CAN do that. I don't think they devalue Rozsival as much as understand he cannot fill that role b/c of age slippage and the fact that top four defenders are basically workhorses who carry big time loads.
I do see a possibilty of teh Hawks taking a cahnce on a young veteran maybe a Jared Cowen who is under contract for a few more years at 3.1 less than Oduya's present salary.
You would be trading a good chip for him, but you get two kore years for the new younger third pair to improve and evolve into that 4th man second pair spot.
It is not like Cowen is a finished product; I use him as a perfect example of what FILLS the opening...it has got to be someoen who have seen the league, understands the job, and is up to develop there with experience under his belt.
It doesn't have to be him...just citing what possibly helpd make the transition work better.

Who knows? Maybe the farn kids step in...there certainly are enough defenders in Rockford who COULD eventually fill...it is actually surprising how many backliners they have with upside...and Norell made the Swedish World Junior team and Carl Dalstrom is close to sticking too.
the kids from the Isle BOTH are not slouches...the more you are called upon to play prime minutes in the AHL you get better to attempt that big transistion to big league.

He's not Seabrook, that's for sure. However, I still wouldn't mind seeing Boychuk in a Hawks sweater - if the salary cap didn't exist.
- EKolb13

I think the Isles will re-sign him since he's played so well, the Isles need him and they have the cap room. He'll get paid like a top pair D-man. Thinking in the 6 mil per range.

Hope T+K are comfortable about getting grilled on their new $10.5 mil hits and carrying the team or taking the next step if this cap remains stagnant

Hard to watch half the team get gutted for them and it being directly tied to their matching highest cap hits in the league

I hope this lights a fire under their butt this postseason knowing it could be the last hurrah for a while
- FourFeathers773

The sky is falling, the sky is falling!

and re-sign guys like Saad and Kruger. The net increase $8.4M of the wonder twins next season only complicates things further.

Guess we shall see, eh?
- blackhawk24

I thought the wonder twins were Barry Allen's children who were sent into the future....

I think the Isles will re-sign him since he's played so well, the Isles need him and they have the cap room. He'll get paid like a top pair D-man. Thinking in the 6 mil per range.
- golfbard

I bet he can get more on the open market...

Yeah - because they've disappointed us so often the past 7 years with their unmotivated play.
- StLBravesFan

this is uncharted territory

theyve never been leaned on like this before

theyve already won cups and were just handed top dollar, literally

now they are going to be expected to do the same year in and year out, while the team around them gets dismantled to accompany them

not at all saying theyre a disappointment, but they will really need to do more than "keep the team competitive" in the coming years at those price tags

I don't think you can just sweepingly say the Hawks success revolves exclusively around four back liners.

The hawks success is built around Keith Seabrook Hammer Kane Toews hossa an excellent cast of Sharp Saad Smith Kruger and Oduya company.

If you sacrifice Oduya you better have an adequate defender capable of stepping in and playing that spot without having to scheme and protect him.
That means a veteran presence unless the organization thinks one of their youngsters CAN do that. I don't think they devalue Rozsival as much as understand he cannot fill that role b/c of age slippage and the fact that top four defenders are basically workhorses who carry big time loads.
I do see a possibilty of teh Hawks taking a cahnce on a young veteran maybe a Jared Cowen who is under contract for a few more years at 3.1 less than Oduya's present salary.
You would be trading a good chip for him, but you get two kore years for the new younger third pair to improve and evolve into that 4th man second pair spot.
It is not like Cowen is a finished product; I use him as a perfect example of what FILLS the opening...it has got to be someoen who have seen the league, understands the job, and is up to develop there with experience under his belt.
It doesn't have to be him...just citing what possibly helpd make the transition work better.

Who knows? Maybe the farn kids step in...there certainly are enough defenders in Rockford who COULD eventually fill...it is actually surprising how many backliners they have with upside...and Norell made the Swedish World Junior team and Carl Dalstrom is close to sticking too.
the kids from the Isle BOTH are not slouches...the more you are called upon to play prime minutes in the AHL you get better to attempt that big transistion to big league.
- wiz1901

Well that's pretty much what I'm saying, and how important are those top 4 in that mix? Very.

The way the Hawks "tilt the ice" is they get pucks out and up the ice lightning quick, which starts with the Top 4, without question, and they maintain offensive zone pressure with puck protection and—d-men who can pinch and still get back.

Disagree about a billion percent. Seabrook puts up the numbers he does because Keith can cover a disgusting amount of ice and make up for a lot of his brain farts.

When push has come to shove and they need to lean on a defensive pairing it is Hammer and Keith not Keith and Seabs.
- fattybeef

Disagree all you want, its the other way around for this defence-first team. Duncs runs all over the ice cuz Seabs is sound defencively. Hammer and JO help keep DK's TOI from looking like Suter's and Seabs stay-home ability affords DK the chance to move the puck even more.

I bet he can get more on the open market...
- wiz1901

Boychuk and M.Staal probably looking at identical contracts, i was thinking each looking at $6-$6.5 per

1st in the division
1st in goal differential
1st in GA
6th in GF(after a long drought to start the season)
1st in PK
2nd in SV%
2nd in 5v5 F/A
1st in SF
1st in CF60
1st in CF%
5th in FO%
1st in OZFO%

Yes, this is the best team in the NHL.
- SimpleJack

Wow

I bet he can get more on the open market...
- wiz1901

Maybe. Isles will need to pony up to keep him especially going into a new venue and rebuilding their fan base.