i dont watch enough of oshie to have a really good read on it, but i do know that from what ive seen he has shown himself to be a pretty good two way player. obviously backes carries more of the defensive load, but oshie seemed to be far from a reliability.

but prior to this year, when both are having down seasons for whatever reason. would you say that oshie is a better defensive asset than read?
- stayinthefnnet

Oshie's bigger, more physical, skates better, has very good hockey sense and hands -- he's not just riding shotgun with Backes. Those guys are relied upon to do all of the heavy lifting Couturier does with Read, but because Backes is more advanced than Couturier, it goes a little better offensively for them as a unit.

But yeah -- if you put Oshie with Malkin in Pittsburgh's system, a lot of your problems would be solved.

Oshie's a good penalty killer, man -- reliable, will block shots. He's having a bit of a down year, as I said, because Tarasenko's line is getting a lot of OZ starts and he had a concussion earlier this season and hasn't looked quite right since

Yeah, who is #10?


edit: Christian Dvorak. Coyotes prospect.
- MBFlyerfan

Would have been a solid pick last year but still like our draft a lot.

Already posted a reliable source. Not it's your turn. Post an equal source that I did that shows how Hitchcock is a defense first coach. His system and style of play may have been more rooted to the defensive side and a lot more passive in the past. But that is not the case anymore. If you actually knew what Hithcock's system is, you'd know that.
- MJL

Sadly Im done playing. Had a bit of my crazy fun, rock on.

And no offense, but a blog post by "Michael" at 4:13pm isn't the best use of reliable source. That could just be you for all I know.

regardless of system, i dont think he has ever really had a great center to play with. stasny looks pretty bad in STL. Backes, when he plays center, is a player whose game i would adore on the pens, but he isnt exactly the guy who is going to be a point producing driver. Berglund, again, is a good 2 way guy, but not an offense flash.

so due to a multitude of factors, i do think his point totals would improve off of the blues.
- stayinthefnnet

The Blues are kind of like LA is. They have a strong team that can skate and provide massive pressure on the puck, in all 3 zones in any score situation. Except LA is able to get key scoring in the playoffs in the past. St. Louis hasn't been able to get that in the past, in the playoffs. Tarasenko is exploding, so maybe that helps them.

Sadly Im done playing. Had a bit of my crazy fun, rock on.

And no offense, but a blog post by "Michael" at 4:13pm isn't the best use of reliable source. That could just be you for all I know.
- flyer_nutter

Done playing? You never got in the game.

Oshie's bigger, more physical, skates better, has very good hockey sense and hands -- he's not just riding shotgun with Backes. Those guys are relied upon to do all of the heavy lifting Couturier does with Read, but because Backes is more advanced than Couturier, it goes a little better offensively for them as a unit.

But yeah -- if you put Oshie with Malkin in Pittsburgh's system, a lot of your problems would be solved.

Oshie's a good penalty killer, man -- reliable, will block shots. He's having a bit of a down year, as I said, because Tarasenko's line is getting a lot of OZ starts and he had a concussion earlier this season and hasn't looked quite right since
- AllInForFlyers

Oshie is one of those horses that can really get on the puck, even though he is having a down year offensively, he's still an effective player, because of his physical play and puck pursuit. I think his offensive output will improve.

The Blues are kind of like LA is. They have a strong team that can skate and provide massive pressure on the puck, in all 3 zones in any score situation. Except LA is able to get key scoring in the playoffs in the past. St. Louis hasn't been able to get that in the past, in the playoffs. Tarasenko is exploding, so maybe that helps them.
- MJL

but now LA most certainly uses a defensive system.

but now LA most certainly uses a defensive system.
- stayinthefnnet

Not if you ask Daryll Sutter they don't. That's another team that is all about the forecheck and puck pressure. There really isn't a single good team in the NHL that uses a defense first system. The League is not that way. They all want to play well defensively, but the NHL is all about the forecheck these days. They all want to spend as little time defending and without the puck as possible.

Sutter had success taking over from Terry Murray because he opened it up, and allowed a lot more creativity offensively, as long that they didn't lose discipline, and do it recklessly.

Oshie's bigger, more physical, skates better, has very good hockey sense and hands -- he's not just riding shotgun with Backes. Those guys are relied upon to do all of the heavy lifting Couturier does with Read, but because Backes is more advanced than Couturier, it goes a little better offensively for them as a unit.

But yeah -- if you put Oshie with Malkin in Pittsburgh's system, a lot of your problems would be solved.

Oshie's a good penalty killer, man -- reliable, will block shots. He's having a bit of a down year, as I said, because Tarasenko's line is getting a lot of OZ starts and he had a concussion earlier this season and hasn't looked quite right since
- AllInForFlyers

oh yeah. i know the offense would be there. he has hands for sure, and is good on the puck and in retrieval. and i knew he was pretty good with defensive responsibility. i just didnt know he was to THAT level. realistically he wouldnt get any PK time with the pens. adams will have that job until his bones literally become fossilized.

but if he could bring those offensive skills to malkins line, while having that kind of defensive awareness at even strength. ugh. it would be perfect.

i would be hesitant to move the first AND pouliot. but if something could be worked around the first and dumoulin, i would be ecstatic.

oh yeah. i know the offense would be there. he has hands for sure, and is good on the puck and in retrieval. and i knew he was pretty good with defensive responsibility. i just didnt know he was to THAT level. realistically he wouldnt get any PK time with the pens. adams will have that job until his bones literally become fossilized.

but if he could bring those offensive skills to malkins line, while having that kind of defensive awareness at even strength. ugh. it would be perfect.

i would be hesitant to move the first AND pouliot. but if something could be worked around the first and dumoulin, i would be ecstatic.
- stayinthefnnet

How much do you guys miss Dupuis?

oh yeah. i know the offense would be there. he has hands for sure, and is good on the puck and in retrieval. and i knew he was pretty good with defensive responsibility. i just didnt know he was to THAT level. realistically he wouldnt get any PK time with the pens. adams will have that job until his bones literally become fossilized.

but if he could bring those offensive skills to malkins line, while having that kind of defensive awareness at even strength. ugh. it would be perfect.

i would be hesitant to move the first AND pouliot. but if something could be worked around the first and dumoulin, i would be ecstatic.
- stayinthefnnet

Is his name out there, or are people speculating because his numbers are down?

That'd be an interesting move by them, because St. Louis at times has had an internal budget -- they're not always a cap team. Wonder if they think they're gonna have to throw some real big dollars at the Freak Show, because he's Russian and RFA and, TBH, I don't know that they can score enough to win a Cup without him and they probably know that, too

Not if you ask Daryll Sutter they don't. That's another team that is all about the forecheck and puck pressure. There really isn't a single good team in the NHL that uses a defense first system. The League is not that way. They all want to play well defensively, but the NHL is all about the forecheck these days. They all want to spend as little time defending and without the puck as possible.

Sutter had success taking over from Terry Murray because he opened it up, and allowed a lot more creativity offensively, as long that they didn't lose discipline, and do it recklessly.
- MJL

based on this. i would think that your disagreement with others on here lies not in evaluation of the blues or any other team. i think its just the respective opinion of what actually constitutes a defensive system. i think you are both looking at the same thing, seeing the same thing, but just calling it something different.

i would be inclined to call the kings a team that focuses more on being defensively responsible instead of forcing the issue offensively.

the rangers. would you say they constitute a defensive system? im not going to get into the nuts and bolts of Xs and Os, and i get it that its hard to discuss a system without that. but when you watch these teams plays, the defensemen dont pinch as much. i realize its an extreme example the other way, but under Bylsma, letang would spend as much time behind the opponents net as he would his own.

but then the other teams employ a much more methodical approach up ice. a lot more time is spent by the forwards in the neutral zone, as opposed to already trying to streak up ice. the forwards come back a lot more. call it what you will. defensive system, or just merely being a responsible player. it does result in skewed personal stats.

How much do you guys miss Dupuis?
- MJL

it may sound crazy, because even on his best days, he is far from a star, front line player in this league.

but its literally hard to quantify just how much.

Is his name out there, or are people speculating because his numbers are down?

That'd be an interesting move by them, because St. Louis at times has had an internal budget -- they're not always a cap team. Wonder if they think they're gonna have to throw some real big dollars at the Freak Show, because he's Russian and RFA and, TBH, I don't know that they can score enough to win a Cup without him and they probably know that, too
- AllInForFlyers

i dont have any like bob mackenzie penned notes or anything haha. but just from general Richarding around on the internet. and yeah. basically for the reasons youve mentioned.

tarasenko, schwartz, and just actual dollars spent.

i dont have any like bob mackenzie penned notes or anything haha. but just from general Richarding around on the internet. and yeah. basically for the reasons youve mentioned.

tarasenko, schwartz, and just actual dollars spent.
- stayinthefnnet

Ah. Yeah. We were talking about that last night. The cap does have a way of making teams have to look at things they might not really want to do.

based on this. i would think that your disagreement with others on here lies not in evaluation of the blues or any other team. i think its just the respective opinion of what actually constitutes a defensive system. i think you are both looking at the same thing, seeing the same thing, but just calling it something different.

i would be inclined to call the kings a team that focuses more on being defensively responsible instead of forcing the issue offensively.

the rangers. would you say they constitute a defensive system? im not going to get into the nuts and bolts of Xs and Os, and i get it that its hard to discuss a system without that. but when you watch these teams plays, the defensemen dont pinch as much. i realize its an extreme example the other way, but under Bylsma, letang would spend as much time behind the opponents net as he would his own.

but then the other teams employ a much more methodical approach up ice. a lot more time is spent by the forwards in the neutral zone, as opposed to already trying to streak up ice. the forwards come back a lot more. call it what you will. defensive system, or just merely being a responsible player. it does result in skewed personal stats.
- stayinthefnnet

I don't think it has anything to do with what constitutes a defensive system. I think it just has to do with knowledge of a system and what someone is looking at. I've done a lot of research and spent a lot of time looking at hockey systems and reading up on the philosophies and thoughts of coaches such as Babcock, Darryll Sutter, and Hitchcock. Who are among the best. You're simply not going to be a good team in today's NHL playing a defense first system. You won't survive, because the better teams will have the puck more then you do, because of how aggressively top teams forecheck and pressure the puck, and how well they move it and transition really quickly from defense to offense.

http://www.sportingnews.c...-definition-sidney-crosby

Don't mistake puck dominance for defense.

Ah. Yeah. We were talking about that last night. The cap does have a way of making teams have to look at things they might not really want to do.
- AllInForFlyers

like you said though. its not even so much as the salary cap. the blues contracts are all pretty reasonable for the most part. their young core guys anyway. to where they could probably make the cap work.

but for them, actual dollars may be a problem. i dont know if they can consistently afford to be a team pressed up against the cap.

I don't think it has anything to do with what constitutes a defensive system. I think it just has to do with knowledge of a system and what someone is looking at. I've done a lot of research and spent a lot of time looking at hockey systems and reading up on the philosophies and thoughts of coaches such as Babcock, Darryll Sutter, and Hitchcock. Who are among the best. You're simply not going to be a good team in today's NHL playing a defense first system. You won't survive, because the better teams will have the puck more then you do, because of how aggressively top teams forecheck and pressure the puck, and how well they move it and transition really quickly from defense to offense.

http://www.sportingnews.c...-definition-sidney-crosby

Don't mistake puck dominance for defense.
- MJL

i am inclined to agree to an extent. the kings actually open it up a bit more in the playoffs, of all times it seems.

although having a guy like a healthy gaborik finally allowed them to do that.

and i get that a lot of the times, its going to be dictated by the personnel you have.

and no, i dont mistake puck dominance for defense at all. i'm a penguins fan

Phillies have now apparently traded Bastardo to the Pirates.

http://www.csnphilly.com/...-antonio-bastardo-pirates

Phillies have now apparently traded Bastardo to the Pirates.

http://www.csnphilly.com/...-antonio-bastardo-pirates
- MJL

And Rollins to the Dodgers. (probably leight)

i am inclined to agree to an extent. the kings actually open it up a bit more in the playoffs, of all times it seems.

although having a guy like a healthy gaborik finally allowed them to do that.

and i get that a lot of the times, its going to be dictated by the personnel you have.

and no, i dont mistake puck dominance for defense at all. i'm a penguins fan
- stayinthefnnet

If you watch the Flyers play, there have been a lot of bad breakdowns that have led to a lot of goals, but there have also been a lot of shifts where the Flyers defended well, kept the opposition to the outside with out giving up any really strong scoring chances. That's all well and good, but the problem is that you just spent the entire shift defending. And it normally ends with a chip off the glass, a pop out to center ice, or a weak dump in with no forecheck behind it. The Flyers are changing lines and D pairs behind that, and then the cycle starts all over. And the Flyers are spending large chunks of game defending. Can't win that way unless you get some good puck luck and a goalie stands on his head. That's not a winning formula. In this league, if you're not forechecking and pressuring the puck, you're not going to win consistenly.

Man, somebody's getting drunk off their own e-peen juice tonight.

If you watch the Flyers play, there have been a lot of bad breakdowns that have led to a lot of goals, but there have also been a lot of shifts where the Flyers defended well, kept the opposition to the outside with out giving up any really strong scoring chances. That's all well and good, but the problem is that you just spent the entire shift defending. And it normally ends with a chip off the glass, a pop out to center ice, or a weak dump in with no forecheck behind it. The Flyers are changing lines and D pairs behind that, and then the cycle starts all over. And the Flyers are spending large chunks of game defending. Can't win that way unless you get some good puck luck and a goalie stands on his head. That's not a winning formula. In this league, if you're not forechecking and pressuring the puck, you're not going to win consistenly.
- MJL

the rangers?

in games other than the flyers

the rangers?

in games other than the flyers
- stayinthefnnet

Are you asking a question here, not sure?

Are you asking a question here, not sure?
- MJL

yeah haha

i dont play the whole passive aggressive rhetorical bullpoop here. i like going back and forth with people. i dont mind disagreeing, as long as people are cool about it. and everyone on here always is to me.

i was just nominating them for what you thought. because to me when i watch them play. a large percentage of the game is spent without the puck. forcing things to the outside. and trying to score off of turnovers.

that and a hefty dose of holding on for dear life, but thats beside the point