yeah i understand. i fluctuate on how i feel about ovechkin.

i will say this though. i think ovechkin means more to that team and fanbase than what can simply be measured through on ice wins.
- stayinthefnnet

Absolutely. Someone's gotta bring over the Russian prostitutes, and Congress isn't getting the job done.

If you watch the Flyers play, there have been a lot of bad breakdowns that have led to a lot of goals, but there have also been a lot of shifts where the Flyers defended well, kept the opposition to the outside with out giving up any really strong scoring chances. That's all well and good, but the problem is that you just spent the entire shift defending. And it normally ends with a chip off the glass, a pop out to center ice, or a weak dump in with no forecheck behind it. The Flyers are changing lines and D pairs behind that, and then the cycle starts all over. And the Flyers are spending large chunks of game defending. Can't win that way unless you get some good puck luck and a goalie stands on his head. That's not a winning formula. In this league, if you're not forechecking and pressuring the puck, you're not going to win consistenly.
- MJL

Our players suck thanks to holmer. That's our problem

Absolutely. Someone's gotta bring over the Russian prostitutes, and Congress isn't getting the job done.
- jmatchett383

can i order one?

yeah haha

i dont play the whole passive aggressive rhetorical bullpoop here. i like going back and forth with people. i dont mind disagreeing, as long as people are cool about it. and everyone on here always is to me.

i was just nominating them for what you thought. because to me when i watch them play. a large percentage of the game is spent without the puck. forcing things to the outside. and trying to score off of turnovers.

that and a hefty dose of holding on for dear life, but thats beside the point
- stayinthefnnet

Vigneualt's system is about overloading and outnumbering the opposition on the puck. Both offensively and defensively. That's how he views the game and how he wants to play. He plays a 1-2-2 forecheck that isn't as aggressive as a lot of teams, but still is big on puck pressure, and support. He likes to use overloads to accomplish that. And he's also big on regroups instead of giving the puck up. One thing I wish the Flyers would do better, they willingly give the puck up too much. The Rangers like to use a triangle offense once they have the puck established on the cycle in the offensive zone. That way they always have passing options to keep the puck.
Every team tries to accomplish the same thing, they just do it in different ways. And that's to have the puck more then not having it.

Our players suck thanks to holmer. That's our problem
- Just5

All of them suck?

Vigneualt's system is about overloading and outnumbering the opposition on the puck. Both offensively and defensively. That's how he views the game and how he wants to play. He plays a 1-2-2 forecheck that isn't as aggressive as a lot of teams, but still is big on puck pressure, and support. He likes to use overloads to accomplish that. And he's also big on regroups instead of giving the puck up. One thing I wish the Flyers would do better, they willingly give the puck up too much. The Rangers like to use a triangle offense once they have the puck established on the cycle in the offensive zone. That way they always have passing options to keep the puck.
Every team tries to accomplish the same thing, they just do it in different ways. And that's to have the puck more then not having it.
- MJL

i understand. but there is a difference many times in having a theoretical system you would like to do, and also what ends up happening

i understand. but there is a difference many times in having a theoretical system you would like to do, and also what ends up happening
- stayinthefnnet

Of course there is. Just watch the Flyers play.

Vigneualt's system is about overloading and outnumbering the opposition on the puck. Both offensively and defensively. That's how he views the game and how he wants to play. He plays a 1-2-2 forecheck that isn't as aggressive as a lot of teams, but still is big on puck pressure, and support. He likes to use overloads to accomplish that. And he's also big on regroups instead of giving the puck up. One thing I wish the Flyers would do better, they willingly give the puck up too much. The Rangers like to use a triangle offense once they have the puck established on the cycle in the offensive zone. That way they always have passing options to keep the puck.
Every team tries to accomplish the same thing, they just do it in different ways. And that's to have the puck more then not having it.
- MJL

puck pressure and support a lot of the time equals out to be forwards coming back. being up the opposing d men at the point, or helping out back down low to be on the puck. when i mean defensive system, im not referring to simply wanting only to get the puck and rifle it back down again in preparation for another onslaught.

i mean that it is much more driven home that the forwards are to be more defensively responsible and help out, be it through pressuring the puck holder, or coming back to support in their own crease, or what. a defensive minded team does this. like i said, maybe we are quibbling over semantics. what i would deem defensive, you would say is responsible.

but the rangers. thats heavy on their minds. be it by design or simply shows in execution. triangle or whatever shape youd like to throw out there, the forwards come back, and help. the team as a whole looks to ensure that the puck is gathered and acquired before exiting their own zone, rather than the forwards saying (frank) it and already being across the red line waiting for a home run outlet pass.

puck pressure and support a lot of the time equals out to be forwards coming back. being up the opposing d men at the point, or helping out back down low to be on the puck. when i mean defensive system, im not referring to simply wanting only to get the puck and rifle it back down again in preparation for another onslaught.

i mean that it is much more driven home that the forwards are to be more defensively responsible and help out, be it through pressuring the puck holder, or coming back to support in their own crease, or what. a defensive minded team does this. like i said, maybe we are quibbling over semantics. what i would deem defensive, you would say is responsible.

but the rangers. thats heavy on their minds. be it by design or simply shows in execution. triangle or whatever shape youd like to throw out there, the forwards come back, and help. the team as a whole looks to ensure that the puck is gathered and acquired before exiting their own zone, rather than the forwards saying (frank) it and already being across the red line waiting for a home run outlet pass.
- stayinthefnnet

You can't be an effective puck pressure team without support. It's impossible. With the Rangers overload system, they want 3 guys on the puck to your 2. It's basically forechecking in the defensive zone when they don't have the puck. They changed from the low zone collapse that Tortorella played, to an overload in their own end. 3 guys are on the puck man to man, while the other two are halfway, and are playing zone. The weakness is a cross ice pass, which is what the 2 zone defenders are on the lookout for, but they are still at the dividing point on the puck side of the ice.
Vigneault also favors quick up breakouts, which kill the Flyers, and over-over breakouts.

puck pressure and support a lot of the time equals out to be forwards coming back. being up the opposing d men at the point, or helping out back down low to be on the puck. when i mean defensive system, im not referring to simply wanting only to get the puck and rifle it back down again in preparation for another onslaught.

i mean that it is much more driven home that the forwards are to be more defensively responsible and help out, be it through pressuring the puck holder, or coming back to support in their own crease, or what. a defensive minded team does this. like i said, maybe we are quibbling over semantics. what i would deem defensive, you would say is responsible.

but the rangers. thats heavy on their minds. be it by design or simply shows in execution. triangle or whatever shape youd like to throw out there, the forwards come back, and help. the team as a whole looks to ensure that the puck is gathered and acquired before exiting their own zone, rather than the forwards saying (frank) it and already being across the red line waiting for a home run outlet pass.
- stayinthefnnet

The (frank) it approach seems to work better with our team just Bc Of our piss poor skating.

Seriously they'd be better if they just play the trap, try and hit homers, and spend ALL their practice time on special teams

BRING BACK THE TRAP BERUBE

You can't be an effective puck pressure team without support. It's impossible. With the Rangers overload system, they want 3 guys on the puck to your 2. It's basically forechecking in the defensive zone when they don't have the puck. They changed from the low zone collapse that Tortorella played, to an overload in their own end. 3 guys are on the puck man to man, while the other two are halfway, and are playing zone. The weakness is a cross ice pass, which is what the 2 zone defenders are on the lookout for, but they are still at the dividing point on the puck side of the ice.
Vigneault also favors quick up breakouts, which kill the Flyers, and over-over breakouts.
- MJL

i guess for me a large portion of how "Defensive" a team is entails the level of obligation placed onto their forwards. under DB's system. they were to wait up ice for a stretch ice pass (that usually was picked off). under a more "defensive" system, they are held accountable for coming back and to play in their own zone.

which comes to my whole point though. naturally, such a style may call for the sacrifice of some individual point totals for the greater good of the team

The (frank) it approach seems to work better with our team just Bc Of our piss poor skating.

Seriously they'd be better if they just play the trap, try and hit homers, and spend ALL their practice time on special teams
- Just5

cant forget the shootout haha

but no. the try and hit homers approach doesnt work after teams just clog the neutral zone.

im not saying hes the best in the league overall, but letang is one of the best at rushing/passing up ice. even martin is wildly underrated in that category. and then you consider that the guys waiting for passes are crosby and malkin.

it doesnt matter who is involved, the other team will eventually learn to just stand in the neutral zone, and quickly clog it and send it the other way

i guess for me a large portion of how "Defensive" a team is entails the level of obligation placed onto their forwards. under DB's system. they were to wait up ice for a stretch ice pass (that usually was picked off). under a more "defensive" system, they are held accountable for coming back and to play in their own zone.

which comes to my whole point though. naturally, such a style may call for the sacrifice of some individual point totals for the greater good of the team
- stayinthefnnet

I personally feel that a system that keeps a solid gap in all areas, and plays a 5 man game up and down the ice leads to better puck possession, and more offense. Like I said before, you can't be a puck pressure team without support, regardless of what zone of the ice the puck is in. Players are too good.

Yea, Malkin might get some chances goal hanging. Have you ever seen when a team is on the PP, and they try and use a stretch pass, or the goalie tries to outlet the puck way up ice to an open forward with the PKers changing behind the play? What usually happens is the forward that gets the puck is on a lone ranger rush, is outnumbered on the puck, and an easy clear for the defense. I hate that. A controlled breakout with speed and support on a regroup is far more effective.

BRING BACK THE TRAP BERUBE
- Just5

Worst thing they could do. They can't generate enough shots now.

tj oshie... that sounds like a plan

AHL ‏@TheAHL

Bobby Sanguinetti's goal vs. the #Amerks gives him goals in three straight. He has 3g-2a in those three games for the @uticacomets.

All of them suck?

- MJL

as a whole, yes... their record reflects this.

tj oshie... that sounds like a plan
- JoeRussomanno

I dont know. He has had one concussion this season all ready. And took another head shot last Saturday. One 20 goal season in his career. He looks not all that good this season.

I dont know. He has had one concussion this season all ready. And took another head shot last Saturday. One 20 goal season in his career. He looks not all that good this season.
- MBFlyerfan

I don't see the Blues looking to trade Oshie.

AHL ‏@TheAHL

Bobby Sanguinetti's goal vs. the #Amerks gives him goals in three straight. He has 3g-2a in those three games for the @uticacomets.
- ob18

If only we picked him over this Giroux bum. Instead it's yet another pipe dream playing for a division rival

as a whole, yes... their record reflects this.
- JoeRussomanno

It's a team Joe, you can have good players that don't mesh and make a bad team.

Worst thing they could do. They can't generate enough shots now.
- MJL

So is this a system problem?
Or
The defense not moving the puck out quickly enough?
Or
The forwards not quick enough, (on a whole)?

A little of everything?

It's a team Joe, you can have good players that don't mesh and make a bad team.
- MJL

that's basically what i said

I dont know. He has had one concussion this season all ready. And took another head shot last Saturday. One 20 goal season in his career. He looks not all that good this season.
- MBFlyerfan

we're due for a good trade