He didn't play well with Schenn & Simmonds, though. That line did manage to produce some offense, but it often got buried in it's own end.

So you want to split Laughton and Simmonds to give Vinny a chance? I don't. If they had a playmaker, maybe. But the only real option would be splitting Giroux and Voracek and either playing Vinny on Giroux's RW or using Vinny as Voracek's center.

Neither appeals to me, in the least. I wouldn't care if Vinny sat in the press box until his deal expires
- Jsaquella

These aren't the only options at all.

He just needs to play with talent. He saw most of his time with Wayne Simmonds and Brayden Schenn last season.
- SuperSchennBros

yeah. but at what point does it infringe upon that talent's own ability to do positive things on the ice when they need to remodel their games to accommodate his?

I play him over Umberger. Just give him " one more" chance. Umberger has not done anything IMO. I know Vinny won't solve problems. All I am saying is just give him a chance. He has " severed his press box time". Umberger is one player who also deserves to sit without question.
- 3flyerkids

Again, where do you play him?

Putting him in Umberger's spot with Couturier and Read is just awful, because Vinny isn't a good defensive player and that line is leaned on as heavily defensively as any line in the NHL.

Put him on the 4th line with Rinaldo & Bellemare? He seemed as interested in that spot as I am interested in hearing about my wife's shopping trip.

Split up Simmonds & Laughton? That line has been very effective, why break it up to get Vinny's carcass in the line up? Play Vinny on LW? He's said he's uncomfortable there and was terrible at it last season. Do you split Giroux & Voracek? Play Vinny on G's RW? Or have him center Jake? Either way, you're handing a guy who seemed to not give a poop a week ago a prime role on the team.

No thanks.

yeah. but at what point does it infringe upon that talent's own ability to do positive things on the ice when they need to remodel their games to accommodate his?
- stayinthefnnet

We'll never know if we don't try. All I'm reading is fear to hold RJ Umberger and Matt Read accountable. We're already losing, can it get any worse?

These aren't the only options at all.
- SuperSchennBros

Then please give me viable options.

He can't play LW. He is useless unless it's a scoring line role. He's not effective on the 4th line. The only spots Lecavalier can fit are on Giroux's RW, Voracek's center or by bumping Laughton to LW or 4th line.

I'm not interested in any of those options to fit in a faded matinee idol.

We'll never know if we don't try. All I'm reading is fear to hold RJ Umberger and Matt Read accountable. We're already losing, can it get any worse?
- SuperSchennBros

I have zero trouble with scraching Umberger or Read. But I'd recall Blair Jones or Taylor Leier to play before dressing Vinny.

So who are Vinny's line mates? Do you play him with Couturier & Read in a defensive role? Because he'd be dreadful in that spot. Do you slide him onto the Simmonds line? Do you bump Brayden Schenn or Scott Laughton? No thanks.

As bad as Umberger was, he's more effective in a defensive role than Lecavalier
- Jsaquella

This is all BS excuses. If Couturier's line is leaned on heavily for defensive zone draws, guess what? That's a problem regardless of who is on Couturier's line. Do you trust Giroux taking a defensive zone draw? Do you trust Laughton's line to take defensive zone draws? If it's really that big of a scare, You can always take Lecavalier off during the defensive zone draw and have the player taking his spot come off when the line is able to escape it's own zone. It happens all the time with Giroux. He'll take a faceoff with on Couturier's line and then enters one of Read or Umberger for example. With Laughton being trusted on the PK so quickly, he should be trusted with other responsibilities that comes with even strength. It comes with the development. Heck, some fans are already willing to walk away from Couturier for Laughton to get a stud defenseman because they think Laughton can take on whatever Couturier can. There are ways to get Lecavalier in the line up.

Then please give me viable options.

He can't play LW. He is useless unless it's a scoring line role. He's not effective on the 4th line. The only spots Lecavalier can fit are on Giroux's RW, Voracek's center or by bumping Laughton to LW or 4th line.

I'm not interested in any of those options to fit in a faded matinee idol.
- Jsaquella

You're just doing what Berube already is, excuses to keep one guy out, rather then giving a player a vote in confidence in playing. Accountability. Give me a break!

I have zero trouble with scraching Umberger or Read. But I'd recall Blair Jones or Taylor Leier to play before dressing Vinny.
- Jsaquella

Well that's a stupid move then.

Even Luke Schenn has been able to find his way back into the line up to see how he responds to being scratched.

This is all BS excuses. If Couturier's line is leaned on heavily for defensive zone draws, guess what? That's a problem regardless of who is on Couturier's line. Do you trust Giroux taking a defensive zone draw? Do you trust Laughton's line to take defensive zone draws? If it's really that big of a scare, You can always take Lecavalier off during the defensive zone draw and have the player taking his spot come off when the line is able to escape it's own zone. It happens all the time with Giroux. He'll take a faceoff with on Couturier's line and then enters one of Read or Umberger for example. With Laughton being trusted on the PK so quickly, he should be trusted with other responsibilities that comes with even strength. It comes with the development. Heck, some fans are already willing to walk away from Couturier for Laughton to get a stud defenseman because they think Laughton can take on whatever Couturier can. There are ways to get Lecavalier in the line up.
- SuperSchennBros

Has to do with a LOT more than defensive zone draws. It has to do with line matchups and the way the line is used. Lecavalier is a poor two way player at this point. Couturier's line plays against the top offensive lines of the opposing team AND starts a ridiculous percent of their shifts in the defensiive zone. It's also using Vinny as a LW, which he has shown he simply can't play effectively.

I don;t give a rat's ass what other fans think. I don't see a spot where Lecavalier fits without breaking up the most effective lines that the team has right now. If Read or Umberger need to get scratched, recall Jones or Leier. No need to dress Lecavalier.

You're just doing what Berube already is, excuses to keep one guy out, rather then giving a player a vote in confidence in playing. Accountability. Give me a break!
- SuperSchennBros

There's no excuse. I have no confidence in Lecavalier, so I would not play him. He's played poorly in pretty much every role he's been tried in over two years. I'd rather see a younger, hungrier player.

Has to do with a LOT more than defensive zone draws. It has to do with line matchups and the way the line is used. Lecavalier is a poor two way player at this point. Couturier's line plays against the top offensive lines of the opposing team AND starts a ridiculous percent of their shifts in the defensiive zone. It's also using Vinny as a LW, which he has shown he simply can't play effectively.

I don;t give a rat's ass what other fans think. I don't see a spot where Lecavalier fits without breaking up the most effective lines that the team has right now. If Read or Umberger need to get scratched, recall Jones or Leier. No need to dress Lecavalier.
- Jsaquella

Well you're as wrong as Berube is in terms on how to handle this team. Are you really that afraid of Lecavalier being on the ice? What's worse then losing because we're already losing. Please, make this, make sense. What else could possibly go wrong?

And spare me this "I don't give a rat's ass about bluh bluh bluh" because that's not an answer.

There's no excuse. I have no confidence in Lecavalier, so I would not play him. He's played poorly in pretty much every role he's been tried in over two years. I'd rather see a younger, hungrier player.
- Jsaquella

Well I'd rather see have a more competent coach behind the bench, so I guess we're in a pickle.

Well that's a stupid move then.

Even Luke Schenn has been able to find his way back into the line up to see how he responds to being scratched.
- SuperSchennBros

i will say this. if they are scratching vinny to send a message, or to see how he responds. then yes. you need to play him again.

its the only way to see if you got through to him, or lit a fire under his ass.

but if you think that he is just done, and they are scratching him simply because they have no where to put him, he actually has a detrimental effect to the games of the guys he is put out there with, and you essentially are just conceding the deal as a mistake and are putting him in the pressbox as a means of washing your hands with it, then it makes sense.

so they are two different paths to me, and depending on which one he is, determines whether or not i would be in a hurry to get him back in the lineup if i was the flyers brass

Again, where do you play him?

Putting him in Umberger's spot with Couturier and Read is just awful, because Vinny isn't a good defensive player and that line is leaned on as heavily defensively as any line in the NHL.

Put him on the 4th line with Rinaldo & Bellemare? He seemed as interested in that spot as I am interested in hearing about my wife's shopping trip.

Split up Simmonds & Laughton? That line has been very effective, why break it up to get Vinny's carcass in the line up? Play Vinny on LW? He's said he's uncomfortable there and was terrible at it last season. Do you split Giroux & Voracek? Play Vinny on G's RW? Or have him center Jake? Either way, you're handing a guy who seemed to not give a poop a week ago a prime role on the team.

No thanks.
- Jsaquella

I play him on that line with Read and Coututier. I am sure he is aware he will not be at Centre on this team. Umberger is a " offensive liability" as much as Vinny is a " defensive liability". Read and Couturier are struggling offensively. Let Vinny have one more kick at the can . It really can't be worse than what they have going right now. The team is a mess bottom line.

Well you're as wrong as Berube is in terms on how to handle this team. Are you really that afraid of Lecavalier being on the ice? What's worse then losing because we're already losing. Please, make this, make sense. What else could possibly go wrong?

And spare me this "I don't give a rat's ass about bluh bluh bluh" because that's not an answer.
- SuperSchennBros

I'm not afraid of seeing Lecavalier on the ice, I just don't see any role for him that he'd be effective in, without breaking up either the Giroux-Voracek line or the Laughton-Simmonds line. Why play a guy who is not going to be an effective player?

I've given clear, detailed explanations for my opinions and if the team is going to "lose" anyhow, I'd rather see a young, hungry player get a shot than an old retread making too much money for what he brings to the table.

I don't give a rat's ass about what other fans have said, because I've never said I'd replace Couturier with Laughton. The only way I'd consider trading Couturier is if it somehow lead to getting a franchise type defenseman, not because Laughton is a good young two way player.

If it means getting a franchise defenseman, just about any name should be tradeable.

I play him on that line with Read and Coututier. I am sure he is aware he will not be at Centre on this team. Umberger is a " offensive liability" as much as Vinny is a " defensive liability". Read and Couturier are struggling offensively. Let Vinny have one more kick at the can . It really can't be worse than what they have going right now. The team is a mess bottom line.
- 3flyerkids

I don't see this as an unreasonable idea. Not in the least.

Well I'd rather see have a more competent coach behind the bench, so I guess we're in a pickle.
- SuperSchennBros

So would I. But any coach that would force Lecavalier into the line-up just to play him or give him a "vote of confidence" isn't competent. He'd be an idiot.

I'm not afraid of seeing Lecavalier on the ice, I just don't see any role for him that he'd be effective in, without breaking up either the Giroux-Voracek line or the Laughton-Simmonds line. Why play a guy who is not going to be an effective player?

I've given clear, detailed explanations for my opinions and if the team is going to "lose" anyhow, I'd rather see a young, hungry player get a shot than an old retread making too much money for what he brings to the table.

I don't give a rat's ass about what other fans have said, because I've never said I'd replace Couturier with Laughton. The only way I'd consider trading Couturier is if it somehow lead to getting a franchise type defenseman, not because Laughton is a good young two way player.

If it means getting a franchise defenseman, just about any name should be tradeable.
- Jsaquella

We don't know how hungry a player will be until he's allowed to show it.

So would I. But any coach that would force Lecavalier into the line-up just to play him or give him a "vote of confidence" isn't competent. He'd be an idiot.
- Jsaquella

No he's not! Lecavalier has been in the league along time, he should know what he has to do. Vinny had a strong start to the season, his play could go either way.

I play him on that line with Read and Coututier. I am sure he is aware he will not be at Centre on this team. Umberger is a " offensive liability" as much as Vinny is a " defensive liability". Read and Couturier are struggling offensively. Let Vinny have one more kick at the can . It really can't be worse than what they have going right now. The team is a mess bottom line.
- 3flyerkids

i just think that would be a detriment to you guys. i like read and cooter, but i dont think either of them can drive play and set up vinny like he will need.

and also, having him out there would greatly hinder the coots/read tandem's ability to stifle the other teams top line. no, umberger doesnt contribute a thing to them defensively, but at least he doesnt hurt them so much in that regard. he just more or less is not there, in any way good or bad.

i think if you put vinny with them, whatever potential benefit you may get by having him increase their offensive ability (which i still think wouldnt actually work) would more than be overwhelmed by the amount he detracts from their ability to match up against the oppositions top line.

I play him on that line with Read and Coututier. I am sure he is aware he will not be at Centre on this team. Umberger is a " offensive liability" as much as Vinny is a " defensive liability". Read and Couturier are struggling offensively. Let Vinny have one more kick at the can . It really can't be worse than what they have going right now. The team is a mess bottom line.
- 3flyerkids

Trouble is, Lecavalier himself has said he's not comfortable at LW. His play there last season was terrible. At his age, and at this stage of his career, he's either unable or unwilling to adapt his game.

On top of that, Lecavalier played with Read and Couturier for awhile last season. They were horrible together. I simply see no way that putting Lecavalier with Read & Couturier makes them more effective, especially at their primary job.

I really do think that, yes, Lecavalier playing in a defensive or checking line role, would actually be worse than what they have now.

i will say this. if they are scratching vinny to send a message, or to see how he responds. then yes. you need to play him again.

its the only way to see if you got through to him, or lit a fire under his ass.

but if you think that he is just done, and they are scratching him simply because they have no where to put him, he actually has a detrimental effect to the games of the guys he is put out there with, and you essentially are just conceding the deal as a mistake and are putting him in the pressbox as a means of washing your hands with it, then it makes sense.

so they are two different paths to me, and depending on which one he is, determines whether or not i would be in a hurry to get him back in the lineup if i was the flyers brass
- stayinthefnnet

I think Craig Berube has about as much chance of finding another head coach job as John Stevens the past 5 years.

Just did some back reading and found myself skipping quiet a few pages. Some of you guys just don't know when to quit.

Re: Oshie. Would be a great addition but I don't see a return the Blues would take that wouldn't just end up looking like a lateral move for us in the end.
- hereticpride

Let's argue about your post.

I'll go first: You're wrong!

Trouble is, Lecavalier himself has said he's not comfortable at LW. His play there last season was terrible. At his age, and at this stage of his career, he's either unable or unwilling to adapt his game.

On top of that, Lecavalier played with Read and Couturier for awhile last season. They were horrible together. I simply see no way that putting Lecavalier with Read & Couturier makes them more effective, especially at their primary job.

I really do think that, yes, Lecavalier playing in a defensive or checking line role, would actually be worse than what they have now.
- Jsaquella

Hasn't Read continued to play LW on Couturier's line? Even if he hasn't, move him back there.