No he's not! Lecavalier has been in the league along time, he should know what he has to do. Vinny had a strong start to the season, his play could go either way.
- SuperSchennBros

Yes, he is. Lecavalier is a player in decline. He's no longer a top six offensive performer. He's a bad defensive player. He's not a good possession player. His play has gone nowhere but down.

He's not a good fit for a line with Couturier & Read. He showed that last season, and this year, without the back injury, his play has been worse.

I think Craig Berube has about as much chance of finding another head coach job as John Stevens the past 5 years.
- SuperSchennBros

im not saying berube has or hasnt done a good or poopty job.

the only thing im saying, is i have a hard time seeing where vinny fits. he needs to be so heavily facilitated in order to access the few positive attributes he has available to him where i cant see a spot in which it doesnt result in a net loss when he is on the ice.

by all means, i would absolutely love it if he averaged 24 minutes a night for you guys. but if im just talking objectively, thats really how i see it with him.

No he's not! Lecavalier has been in the league along time, he should know what he has to do. Vinny had a strong start to the season, his play could go either way.
- SuperSchennBros

Maybe he's tired. Maybe his body is worn down. Maybe he just doesn't care as much any more because his name is already on the cup and he's earned a boatload of cash from hockey.

Like Gagne, it looks like Vinny is done.

i just think that would be a detriment to you guys. i like read and cooter, but i dont think either of them can drive play and set up vinny like he will need.

and also, having him out there would greatly hinder the coots/read tandem's ability to stifle the other teams top line. no, umberger doesnt contribute a thing to them defensively, but at least he doesnt hurt them so much in that regard. he just more or less is not there, in any way good or bad.

i think if you put vinny with them, whatever potential benefit you may get by having him increase their offensive ability (which i still think wouldnt actually work) would more than be overwhelmed by the amount he detracts from their ability to match up against the oppositions top line.
- stayinthefnnet

The only possible spots for Lecavalier to even approach being effective would be playing RW with a line of Giroux and maybe Raffl, or playing center on a line with Voracek as the RW, again with Raffl on the LW.

He's shown he can't be used in a defensive role, can't play LW, can't be used in a checking line role...he is what he is. He needs guys who can carry the puck and create plays for him to get open shots.

I think Craig Berube has about as much chance of finding another head coach job as John Stevens the past 5 years.
- SuperSchennBros

John Stevens would be the Canucks coach right now if the Kings had not basically promised him that the Kings' job is his when Sutter retires in a year or two

Hasn't Read continued to play LW on Couturier's line? Even if he hasn't, move him back there.
- SuperSchennBros

Still places Lecavalier in a defensive role, where he's not even close to being effective.

The only possible spots for Lecavalier to even approach being effective would be playing RW with a line of Giroux and maybe Raffl, or playing center on a line with Voracek as the RW, again with Raffl on the LW.

He's shown he can't be used in a defensive role, can't play LW, can't be used in a checking line role...he is what he is. He needs guys who can carry the puck and create plays for him to get open shots.
- Jsaquella

yeah. exactly. so if you want to try and tinker with the top line to get him on the ice with either giroux or voracek, then okay. i guess i can see the logic there.

but to me, it isnt worth (frank)ing with your two best players, and essentially the only thing on the team that works well, in order to facilitate VLC

Yes, he is. Lecavalier is a player in decline. He's no longer a top six offensive performer. He's a bad defensive player. He's not a good possession player. His play has gone nowhere but down.

He's not a good fit for a line with Couturier & Read. He showed that last season, and this year, without the back injury, his play has been worse.
- Jsaquella

I'm sorry but I can't take you serious. You went on and on about the same things with Grossmann from January to October of this year. I don't have confidence in Berube as our Coach. I wouldn't be shocked in the least if Lecavalier did get moved and found an effective role suited for him somewhere else. For me the bottom line is, we're already losing games. I've listened to Bullpoop about accountability for two months and I've already learned that there isn't any. There is who you like and who you don't like. That's it.

Still places Lecavalier in a defensive role, where he's not even close to being effective.
- Jsaquella

Then spread the defensive responsibility around among the entire line up!

John Stevens would be the Canucks coach right now if the Kings had not basically promised him that the Kings' job is his when Sutter retires in a year or two
- Jsaquella

So basically when the LA Kings go into decline?

I'm sorry but I can't take you serious. You went on and on about the same things with Grossmann from January to October of this year. I don't have confidence in Berube as our Coach. I wouldn't be shocked in the least if Lecavalier did get moved and found an effective role suited for him somewhere else. For me the bottom line is, we're already losing games. I've listened to Bullpoop about accountability for two months and I've already learned that there isn't any. There is who you like and who you don't like. That's it.
- SuperSchennBros

Lecavalier's problem is Berube?

The only possible spots for Lecavalier to even approach being effective would be playing RW with a line of Giroux and maybe Raffl, or playing center on a line with Voracek as the RW, again with Raffl on the LW.

He's shown he can't be used in a defensive role, can't play LW, can't be used in a checking line role...he is what he is. He needs guys who can carry the puck and create plays for him to get open shots.
- Jsaquella

I would separate Giroux and Voracek anyway, regardless of whom they play with. They're both star players. The best duos in the league can play together and apart.

Lecavalier's problem is Berube?
- wolfhounds

The team's problem is Berube.

I'm sorry but I can't take you serious. You went on and on about the same things with Grossmann from January to October of this year. I don't have confidence in Berube as our Coach. I wouldn't be shocked in the least if Lecavalier did get moved and found an effective role suited for him somewhere else. For me the bottom line is, we're already losing games. I've listened to Bullpoop about accountability for two months and I've already learned that there isn't any. There is who you like and who you don't like. That's it.
- SuperSchennBros

obviously i go on and on about wanting read, and you always pander me to that effect

so i would like to hear your take this time. not on the flyers, because we obviously differ there. but where in the NHL, do you think vinny could realistically be acquired and do well?

for realistic purposes, the flyers really dont need to expect anything back in return, and are willing to eat a million per on the deal until its done. but the opposing team needs to acquire him within salary cap constraints. cant say something like place him on the PP with crosby and malkin and watch him rip.

somewhere that he can be acquired, fit under the cap, and return his team more of a net gain than a net loss when factoring in even strength as well as PP time.

Lecavalier's problem is Berube?
- wolfhounds

i just think levacalier's problem is the fact that he is old and simply cant do the things that he used to do.

i really think it would be insulting to a guy that has been a good pro his whole career to insist that its because he simply isnt trying. maybe it is, but i dont know. and if i had to bet, id bet its more of the former than the latter.

The team's problem is Berube.
- SuperSchennBros

Of course. The coach is usually the first head that rolls. But this isn't a good team, and Vinny seems past his prime.

obviously i go on and on about wanting read, and you always pander me to that effect

so i would like to hear your take this time. not on the flyers, because we obviously differ there. but where in the NHL, do you think vinny could realistically be acquired and do well?

for realistic purposes, the flyers really dont need to expect anything back in return, and are willing to eat a million per on the deal until its done. but the opposing team needs to acquire him within salary cap constraints. cant say something like place him on the PP with crosby and malkin and watch him rip.

somewhere that he can be acquired, fit under the cap, and return his team more of a net gain than a net loss when factoring in even strength as well as PP time.
- stayinthefnnet

Detroit Red Wings, Mike Babcock, the man finds ways to make players young and old effective. Stephan Weiss is the most recent project fixed.

Of course. The coach is usually the first head that rolls. But this isn't a good team, and Vinny seems past his prime.
- wolfhounds

Read your post again. Do you think you've made a point here because you've only pointed out and repeated what's obvious.

i just think levacalier's problem is the fact that he is old and simply cant do the things that he used to do.

i really think it would be insulting to a guy that has been a good pro his whole career to insist that its because he simply isnt trying. maybe it is, but i dont know. and if i had to bet, id bet its more of the former than the latter.
- stayinthefnnet

I like Vinny, just like I really like Gagne. But the name of the game is winning, and the day inevitably arrives for every athlete when they just can't get it done any longer. Not only do you need to be extremely hungry (mental), on the verge of starvation, but your body also needs to be cooperating, and one or the other seems to be lacking for VLC. No shame in that. It happens, sooner or later, to every single professional athlete.

I'm sorry but I can't take you serious. You went on and on about the same things with Grossmann from January to October of this year. I don't have confidence in Berube as our Coach. I wouldn't be shocked in the least if Lecavalier did get moved and found an effective role suited for him somewhere else. For me the bottom line is, we're already losing games. I've listened to Bullpoop about accountability for two months and I've already learned that there isn't any. There is who you like and who you don't like. That's it.
- SuperSchennBros

I don't have faith in Berube, either. But I agree with his non-use of Lecavalier.

Holding Read or Umberger accountable has nothing to do with Lecavalier. Different roles, different kind of players. Grossmann can be scratched and replaced with Luke Schenn. Lecavalier can't replace Read or Umberger defensively

Read your post again. Do you think you've made a point here because you've only pointed out and repeated what's obvious.
- SuperSchennBros

Ok. But it seemed you were of the mind that Berube was to blame for VLC's being ineffective.

Regardless, VLC is far from the only problem on this team.

I wouldn't be shocked in the least if Lecavalier did get moved and found an effective role suited for him somewhere else.

I like Vinny, just like I really like Gagne. But the name of the game is winning, and the day inevitably arrives for every athlete when they just can't get it done any longer. Not only do you need to be extremely hungry (mental), on the verge of starvation, but your body also needs to be cooperating, and one or the other seems to be lacking for VLC. No shame in that. It happens, sooner or later, to every single professional athlete.
- wolfhounds

Simon Gagne is clearly long past his prime but he has three goals and one assist. Simon Gagne has more goals after a year of not playing and starting the season late then Matt Read and RJ Umberger. This to me is sad within itself.

Detroit Red Wings, Mike Babcock, the man finds ways to make players young and old effective. Stephan Weiss is the most recent project fixed.
- SuperSchennBros

does detroit have the cap space?

i just struggle to see where he would fit. they already have a lot of younger guys in key roles, such as nyquist and tatar. i cant see vinny being prioritized to skate on a scoring line over one of them. maybe. someone like datsyuk or zetterberg could set him up and relieve him of a lot of those duties. i still see his 2 way game, or lack thereof, preventing babcock from slotting him with those guys.

I don't have faith in Berube, either. But I agree with his non-use of Lecavalier.

Holding Read or Umberger accountable has nothing to do with Lecavalier. Different roles, different kind of players. Grossmann can be scratched and replaced with Luke Schenn. Lecavalier can't replace Read or Umberger defensively
- Jsaquella

I don't think we have anything else to lose at this point.

does detroit have the cap space?

i just struggle to see where he would fit. they already have a lot of younger guys in key roles, such as nyquist and tatar. i cant see vinny being prioritized to skate on a scoring line over one of them. maybe. someone like datsyuk or zetterberg could set him up and relieve him of a lot of those duties. i still see his 2 way game, or lack thereof, preventing babcock from slotting him with those guys.
- stayinthefnnet

I have no idea if they'd even be interested.