Ok. But it seemed you were of the mind that Berube was to blame for VLC's being ineffective.

Regardless, VLC is far from the only problem on this team.
- wolfhounds

We're in agreement. My apologies.

I like Vinny, just like I really like Gagne. But the name of the game is winning, and the day inevitably arrives for every athlete when they just can't get it done any longer. Not only do you need to be extremely hungry (mental), on the verge of starvation, but your body also needs to be cooperating, and one or the other seems to be lacking for VLC. No shame in that. It happens, sooner or later, to every single professional athlete.
- wolfhounds

exactly. no shame in it. and it does seem funny how some guys experience a slower decline. and others just drop completely off out of the blue.

and others somehow hang on forever, and keep up. jags

Simon Gagne is clearly long past his prime but he has three goals and one assist. Simon Gagne has more goals after a year of not playing and starting the season late then Matt Read and RJ Umberger. This to me is sad within itself.
- SuperSchennBros

And he's pretty much the same age as Vinny, in his early/mid 30s. It's odd how some players lose their game quicker than others, but it happens.

It's like Read hit this big (frank)ing brick wall. Maybe he just got comfortable with finally 'making it', getting the big contract and proving he belongs in the NHL.

We're in agreement. My apologies.
- SuperSchennBros

Bah. No worries. Quite a lot can be lost in text.

Plague on you double post!

And he's pretty much the same age as Vinny, in his early/mid 30s. It's odd how some players lose their game quicker than others, but it happens.

It's like Read his this big (frank)ing brick wall. Maybe he just got comfortable with finally 'making it', getting the big contract and proving he belongs in the NHL.
- wolfhounds

Maybe.

I have no idea if they'd even be interested.
- SuperSchennBros

oh me neither. but that wasnt the point. more just kicking ideas back and forth. i love hypotheticals, especially when its not the same ones over and over.

And he's pretty much the same age as Vinny, in his early/mid 30s. It's odd how some players lose their game quicker than others, but it happens.

It's like Read his this big (frank)ing brick wall. Maybe he just got comfortable with finally 'making it', getting the big contract and proving he belongs in the NHL.
- wolfhounds

if that in fact is the case with read, i will be pretty sad. and wouldnt want him anymore.

exactly. no shame in it. and it does seem funny how some guys experience a slower decline. and others just drop completely off out of the blue.

and others somehow hang on forever, and keep up. jags
- stayinthefnnet

Huge part of the game is mental. Will. There's no accounting for it.

Berube is not going to throw Vinny in the lineup just to see if there's a spark there. I think what he's doing is trying to hold all players accountable in all 3 zones even if its at the expense of an Akeson/Lecavalier who might pot a point or two. It's about setting a culture and an identity, and if it has to come at an expense of scratching a guy like Vinny then he's going to do it.

Right now win or lose the most important thing is getting all the players to pull in the same direction.

At least that's what I hope is going on.

Huge part of the game is mental. Will. There's no accounting for it.
- wolfhounds

true. but like you said. sometimes it really is as simple as the mind and spirit are willing but the flesh is weak.

i think umberger really is trying to give his all. it probably pains him to be this bad. and he knows it.

same with brendan morrow when he was acquired by the pens. his knee injury didnt help, but the guy just didnt have it anymore. absolute warrior to the core still, but sometimes there just isnt any more gas in the tank no matter how defiantly you are stomping on the pedal.

if that in fact is the case with read, i will be pretty sad. and wouldnt want him anymore.
- stayinthefnnet

Could just be an off year, like the rest of the team. We'll see.

Berube is not going to throw Vinny in the lineup just to see if there's a spark there. I think what he's doing is trying to hold all players accountable in all 3 zones even if its at the expense of an Akeson/Lecavalier who might pot a point or two. It's about setting a culture and an identity, and if it has to come at an expense of scratching a guy like Vinny then he's going to do it.

Right now win or lose the most important thing is getting all the players to pull in the same direction.

At least that's what I hope is going on.
- Just5

What's our identity?

I don't think we have anything else to lose at this point.
- SuperSchennBros

What do they have to gain by playing Lecavalier over a youngster like Leier?

What do they have to gain by playing Lecavalier over a youngster like Leier?
- Jsaquella

the potential opportunity to justify the contract/money he is being paid

the potential opportunity to justify the contract/money he is being paid
- stayinthefnnet

Exactly. Pretty much to make Holmgren feel better for signing a corpse to a 5 year deal

Exactly. Pretty much to make Holmgren feel better for signing a corpse to a 5 year deal
- Jsaquella

And it could make him a bit easier to move, so I understand that part. But do I think it will happen, that Vinny will suddenly improve after a year and a half of pretty much the same conditions? Seems unlikely. But would I be a fan of trying absolutely anything that might help, not only the team, but also VLC? Damn skippy.

I would separate Giroux and Voracek anyway, regardless of whom they play with. They're both star players. The best duos in the league can play together and apart.
- SuperSchennBros

They can, and I agree. But if I'm splitting Giroux and Voracek, it's not to chain an anchor like Vinny around their ankles. I'd put Giroux with Simmonds and play Voracek with either Couturier or Schenn. Use them to drive the guys who will be key pieces when this team is a contender, not to try and get Vinny closer to 425 goals

They can, and I agree. But if I'm splitting Giroux and Voracek, it's to to chain an anchor like Vinny around their ankles. I'd put Giroux with Simmonds and play Voracek with either Couturier or Schenn. Use them to drive the guys who will be key pieces when this team is a contender, not to try and get Vinny closer to 425 goals
- Jsaquella

i would like to see the split if only to lessen their respective chances at the Art ross

And it could make him a bit easier to move, so I understand that part. But do I think it will happen, that Vinny will suddenly improve after a year and a half of pretty much the same conditions? Seems unlikely. But would I be a fan of trying absolutely anything that might help, not only the team, but also VLC? Damn skippy.
- wolfhounds

Playing him might actually hurt his trade value. The way he looked before he finally got sent to the press box, nobody would take him, even if the Flyers were eating half his cash for the next 3 years.

EDIT: Even Eklund has dropped his nonsensical idea that Vinny has trade value

i would like to see the split if only to lessen their respective chances at the Art ross
- stayinthefnnet

An Art Ross this season would be so typically Flyers

An Art Ross this season would be so typically Flyers
- Jsaquella

bah. i dont care. its petty and its vain and ultimately immaterial. the pens will be bounced from the playoffs yet again for the same crappy reasons.

but crosby is finally consistently healhy (fingers crossed he stays that way). now is the time to string a couple together consecutively.

hes already lost at least one, and probably two, to injury.

Playing him might actually hurt his trade value. The way he looked before he finally got sent to the press box, nobody would take him, even if the Flyers were eating half his cash for the next 3 years.

EDIT: Even Eklund has dropped his nonsensical idea that Vinny has trade value
- Jsaquella

The Flyers, as represented by this peewee soccer player:

The Flyers, as represented by this peewee soccer player:


- wolfhounds

pfft. the kid blocks shots better than Amac.

and hed probably do it for a fifth of the cap hit to boot if you threw in a playstation and some juice boxes.

pfft. the kid blocks shots better than Amac.

and hed probably do it for a fifth of the cap hit to boot if you threw in a playstation and some juice boxes.
- stayinthefnnet

Ouch. Easy there, Pens fan.

Edit: I just love that he takes one to the face, falls down, gets up, then runs over to take another to the face. Kid's got heart!