The alternative is an economy completely built on maple syrup and cheese curds.
- Tomahawk

And saucy French attitude.

mmm, cheese curds.

Is he a lot better? He is in his 7th full season and has only scored 20 goals once in his career.

He is a better playmaker/stickhandler, but Read has scored 20 twice and was on pace for 20 during the lockout, is better defensively, and probably a bit faster.

Both are having down seasons. Read for some unknown as yet reason, and Oshie because of a concussion.

Oshie is probably a better player, but he is not A LOT better by any stretch.
- MBFlyerfan

The average 82 game year, Oshie will give you about 55 points and Read will give you around 43. Read's got a better goal scoring ability. Oshie's good defensively too but I don't follow the Blues enough to know if he's better than Read.

Either way, you have to factor in the name thing when talking trades and no GM would trade Oshie for Read straight up at this point.

Panotch tweeting Emery in net tonight.

mmm, cheese curds.
- wolfhounds

i think he has not demonstrated much value to this point which makes the return you get in a trade less; there is a chance he begins to snap out of it and may bring more at the tdl.....as much of a regression as he and couturier have seemingly taken is of concern and i think fuels speculation about the fitness of the coach. unfortunately it seems the flyers have finally decided to stop firing coaches now instead of when hitch or lavy was behind the bench
- hogweed

Matt Read is bound to regress to the mean barring some unforeseen circumstance that is causing his struggles. Keep in mind Read and Couturier face the highest Quality of Competition on the team and start less than 40% of their shifts in the ozone, which makes scoring more difficult. In fact, of all qualified players, these guys are both in the top 12 of hardest competition faced and out of these 12 players only Viktor Stalberg starts more shifts in the dzone than Read and none more than Couts.

Basically, moving Read now would be a "buy low" scenario for another team that would most likely work out for them.

The average 82 game year, Oshie will give you about 55 points and Read will give you around 43. Read's got a better goal scoring ability. Oshie's good defensively too but I don't follow the Blues enough to know if he's better than Read.

Either way, you have to factor in the name thing when talking trades and no GM would trade Oshie for Read straight up at this point.
- NickTheKid87

He IS better. I follow him pretty closely because he is one of my fantasy keepers for the last 4 years. He is a playmaker.

I don't think St. Louis would do the deal straight up. But in terms of roles and what they provide (offense, playmaking vs goalscoring/defense) it is not as uneven trade as some would think.

I just worry that Oshie is still overcoming his Concussion from earlier in the year. And he took another good shot last Saturday.




http://www.signandtrade.c...ockey-player-compare.aspx

here is a good comparison site.

Long term? I think he has the wheels and the hands to produce more offensively than Couturier. We've already seen his nose for the net on more than a couple instances. Right now I think they're both third line shutdown centers at their current development level.

While the goals haven't started coming yet, I feel his line with Simmonds and Raffl/B.Schenn has certainly looked more dominate at 5v5 than Couturier's line. Do you think couturier would look as good with that same set of wingers/zone starts? I don't think he would.
- kcm57

Couturier would look better. Laughton is getting 57% OZ starts compared to Couturier's 36%. And Raffl/BSchenn and Simmonds are MUCH better wingers at even strength this season than the Read and Umberger anchors Couturier has been stuck with.

Flyers forwards - minutes per ES point

Voracek 26 ESP in 414 mins = 15.92
BSchenn 14 ESP in 379 mins = 27.07
Giroux 16 ESP in 466 mins = 29.13
Raffl 8 ESP in 247 mins = 30.88

Simmonds 8 ESP in 377 mins = 47.13
Couturier 8 ESP in 387 mins = 48.38
VandeVelde 3 ESP in 146 mins = 48.67

Lecavalier 3 ESP in 173 mins = 57.67
Read 6 ESP in 370 mins = 61.67
Bellemare 4 ESP in 264 mins = 66

Umberger 3 ESP in 310 mins = 103.33
Laughton 1 ESP in 127 mins = 127
Rinaldo 1 ESP in 202 mins = 202

Long term? I think he has the wheels and the hands to produce more offensively than Couturier. We've already seen his nose for the net on more than a couple instances. Right now I think they're both third line shutdown centers at their current development level.

While the goals haven't started coming yet, I feel his line with Simmonds and Raffl/B.Schenn has certainly looked more dominate at 5v5 than Couturier's line. Do you think couturier would look as good with that same set of wingers/zone starts? I don't think he would.
- kcm57

When Schenn was with Couturier and Read that line was playing very well. Right now COuturier has Umberger and Read. Not hard to tell why Laughtons line is playing well and Couturier's isn;t

Panotch tweets Schenn in, MDZ out.

Panotch tweets Schenn in, MDZ out.
- MBFlyerfan

Buroobee'd

So let me get this right before I walk away and go to work because I don't have time to respond to everyone but this team is simply better off without Vincent Lecavalier. We're still losing but somehow we're better.

We're better with Zac Rinaldo out there taking one or two penalties a game with his 5 minutes of shifts knowing damn well our PK is bad but somehow this guy is a better option. Keep in mind that I like Rinaldo and he fills a need in terms of grit because we lack it right now (Due to Culture change) but somehow he's best suited for this team then Lecavalier.

Somehow you guys are telling me because Umberger is "better defensively" it's best to play him and not sit him. I wouldn't sit Read for Lecavalier because he's a young guy coming off a decent season but because he's apart of our struggles there is this fear to sit him.

Heck, god for bid if any of the these three were injured, what would we ever do?

Berube in my opinion has not tried everything. Are you guys also telling me that splitting Voracek and Giroux to spread the offense is too scary an idea to consider? Are you guys telling me, should Berube do such a thing, this January first at midnight, the entire world will shut down like Y2K should have shut down all systems almost 15 years ago? My god!

I'm not saying Lecavalier will fix our issues if we reinsert him into the line up but it is unfair to not give him a chance. I'm seeing our coach hand opportunities to players who probably don't deserve it but sometimes it works out for him. Raffl probably didn't deserve being placed on the first line at the beginning of the season when Berube took Schenn off but it worked out. Raffl has excelled!

This will sound nuts but what if Voracek was placed with Laughton and Lecavalier was offered a shot with Giroux, is it impossible that would turn into something good? Lecavalier is a shooter. We don't know because it hasn't been tried right now. It was tried a year ago and it had good and bad moments but that was last year.

You know that guy on an ear piece telling a sniper on the roof top where to shoot his victim, that's the coach. A sniper can't kill his victim pointing him at a brick wall, he's gotta point him at a window.

No, I don't believe Berube has tried everything. With other coaches, we probably saw 7 different top lines all season long.

Panotch tweets Schenn in, MDZ out.
- MBFlyerfan

Right now I personally would sit Schultz.

Panotch tweeting Emery in net tonight.
- MBFlyerfan

Good for Emery!

So let me get this right before I walk away and go to work because I don't have time to respond to everyone but this team is simply better off without Vincent Lecavalier. We're still losing but somehow we're better.

- SuperSchennBros

We're better off with the open contract slot and money that is being wasted on Vinny.

Panotch tweets Schenn in, MDZ out.
- MBFlyerfan

Wow. I really thought Shultz would get scratched. I feel he has come back to earth and looks more like a 7th dman lately.

Edit: 6 Canadian teams account for 40% of NHL revenue? Wow.
- wolfhounds

Winnipeg is sad you forgot about them.

So let me get this right before I walk away and go to work because I don't have time to respond to everyone but this team is simply better off without Vincent Lecavalier. We're still losing but somehow we're better.

We're better with Zac Rinaldo out there taking one or two penalties a game with his 5 minutes of shifts knowing damn well our PK is bad but somehow this guy is a better option. Keep in mind that I like Rinaldo and he fills a need in terms of grit because we lack it right now (Due to Culture change) but somehow he's best suited for this team then Lecavalier.

Somehow you guys are telling me because Umberger is "better defensively" it's best to play him and not sit him. I wouldn't sit Read for Lecavalier because he's a young guy coming off a decent season but because he's apart of our struggles there is this fear to sit him.

Heck, god for bid if any of the these three were injured, what would we ever do?

Berube in my opinion has not tried everything. Are you guys also telling me that splitting Voracek and Giroux to spread the offense is too scary an idea to consider? Are you guys telling me, should Berube do such a thing, this January first at midnight, the entire world will shut down like Y2K should have shut down all systems almost 15 years ago? My god!

I'm not saying Lecavalier will fix our issues if we reinsert him into the line up but it is unfair to give him a chance. I'm seeing our coach hand opportunities to players who probably don't deserve it but sometimes it works out for him. Raffl probably didn't deserve being placed on the first line at the beginning of the season when Berube took Schenn off but it worked out. Raffl has excelled!

This will sound nuts but what if Voracek was placed with Laughton and Lecavalier was offered a shot with Giroux, is it impossible that would turn into something good? Lecavalier is a shooter. We don't know because it hasn't been tried right now. It was tried a year ago and it had good and bad moments but that was last year.

You know that guy on an ear piece telling a sniper on the roof top where to shoot his victim, that's the coach. A sniper can't kill his victim pointing him at a brick wall, he's gotta point him at a window.

No, I don't believe Berube has tried everything. With other coaches, we probably saw 7 different top lines all season long.
- SuperSchennBros

I agree a little. I would be up to try the below:


Raffl/Schenn- Giroux - Vinny
Read - Couturier - Voracek
Schenn/Raffl - Laughton - Simmonds
Umberger - PEB - Rinaldo


I think you'll see back in on Saturday.

Panotch tweets Schenn in, MDZ out.
- MBFlyerfan

please tell me you misread it and it's MCD who sits

Panotch tweets Schenn in, MDZ out.
- MBFlyerfan

That explains his earlier tweet of MDZ being paired with Coldcuts.

'The Watchers'

Winnipeg is sad you forgot about them.
- Tomahawk

Guess my invitation to visit them this winter and enjoy their fine weather has been rescinded?

Big Buff was going to take me out for pancakes with cheese curds and maple syrup!

... but this team is simply better off without Vincent Lecavalier. We're still losing but somehow we're better.
- SuperSchennBros

Brayden Schenn is certainly doing much better without Vinny dragging him down.

please tell me you misread it and it's MCD who sits
- -davies-

Tim Panaccio @tpanotchCSN · 23m 23 minutes ago

Looks like Luke Schenn returns with MacDonald. Del Zotto with Colaiacovo which sounds like a scratch since both are same type of d-men

When Schenn was with Couturier and Read that line was playing very well. Right now COuturier has Umberger and Read. Not hard to tell why Laughtons line is playing well and Couturier's isn;t
- J35Bacher

I understand that, which is why I said I personally don't believe Couturier would fit as well between Simonds and Schenn as Laughton does.

My main beef with coots is his speed. And that's just an aspect of his game that isn't going to drastically get better and will eventually even decline. From watching Laughton and Coots play in the same games - Laughton leaves me with a more positive impression and that's taking into consideration the linemates they're both playing with.

Laughton's points will come when he's been generating the chances he has - many of which were solely created by him driving play towards the net, something that I don't see Coots doing very often. About the most you see Coots do offensively on a consistent basis is drive play to the half boards and shoot an easy wrister to the goalie or go to the corner and throw a pass through the crease with no one in front.

Good for Emery!
- SuperSchennBros

Mason definitely needed rest and a good practice or two before his next start.

Tim Panaccio @tpanotchCSN · 23m 23 minutes ago

Looks like Luke Schenn returns with MacDonald. Del Zotto with Colaiacovo which sounds like a scratch since both are same type of d-men
- MBFlyerfan

#Accountability

Did Rinaldo even miss a shift after he took that o-zone minor that led to the goal?