Whether they have 4 or 400, it's the ratio of him compared with the rest of the team. They should spread them out a little more evenly.

This was my point yesterday when I said they should focus more on player development and less on winning the next game.

I would like to see Couts get more offensive opportunities to see what he can do with them. I'd like to see Laughton take on some defensive responsibility to see how he responds.
- PhillySportsGuy

No, it's the percentage of Couturier's starts that matter. If the Flyers become a better possession team, that dictates 5 on 5 play better. And they produce a better ratio of offensive and neutral zone starts versus defensive zone starts, then Couturier will get less D zone starts, and more O zone and neutral zone starts. Look at the faceoff data and compare the LA game to the Devils game.

A big part of why Couturier and Giroux have to take so many D zone starts is because the Flyers normally have to take a high number of defensive zone faceoffs. Couturier is always going to have a higher ratio compared to his teammates.

Are you trying to convince me, or the commissioner? I don't think Gary's going to care much about who "won" the lockout(s). He supposedly was very displeased with teams backloading contracts, and given the Flyers went to that well more than once, if they put themselves in the crosshairs I bet he wouldn't waste a second before pulling the trigger.
- BulliesPhan87

I agree -- the Flyers can just simply scratch him. No need to bring that hammer down. If, and I repeat if, Pronger did tell them they had every intention of circumventing the cap, they'd better tread lightly

Check out Murray Craven:

http://www.tsn.ca/former-...ise-in-las-vegas-1.158278

And to be honest, in this case, they shouldn't.

They signed Vinny to that deal and would have no issues paying it if he was playing better.

Can't let them out of it just because it isn't working -- that is, unless Lecavalier retires, which he could, however unlikely
- AllInForFlyers

yeah, I think the Flyers got what little good will they could out of the Pronger exception, and even that was probably more of a favor to the future hall of famer.

NHL Network tonight

Sarnia vs Kitchener

Zacha is not playing he's at the CZECHS WJC camp

But you might be able to watch Nikita Korostelev

If you put Raffl on Laughton's wing, then yes, absolutely. Think it's a little trickier when he has Schenn and Simmonds, because neither of them are particularly adept in their own zone
- AllInForFlyers

Well this would be an opportunity for those two to work on that aspect of their game. Theyre still young players and may benefit from seeing more balanced minutes.

yeah, I think the Flyers got what little good will they could out of the Pronger exception, and even that was probably more of a favor to the future hall of famer.
- BulliesPhan87

Not sure I understand this.

Well this would be an opportunity for those two to work on that aspect of their game. Theyre still young players and may benefit from seeing more balanced minutes.
- PhillySportsGuy

Ha! You know what? Point made -- they should be working to get better defensively.

I agree -- the Flyers can just simply scratch him. No need to bring that hammer down. If, and I repeat if, Pronger did tell them they had every intention of circumventing the cap, they'd better tread lightly
- AllInForFlyers

Since when is Chris Pronger a tattle tale?

Not sure I understand this.
- MJL

That is, the league made an exception to allow Pronger to remain on LTIR while working a league job. I think Gary did this so Pronger could take the job without issue (because he's an important hockey guy and should have an important hockey job), moreso than to help the Flyers out.

That is, the league made an exception to allow Pronger to remain on LTIR while working a league job. I think Gary did this so Pronger could take the job without issue (because he's an important hockey guy and should have an important hockey job), moreso than to help the Flyers out.
- BulliesPhan87

Gotcha, I agree.

No, it's the percentage of Couturier's starts that matter. If the Flyers become a better possession team, that dictates 5 on 5 play better. And they produce a better ratio of offensive and neutral zone starts versus defensive zone starts, then Couturier will get less D zone starts, and more O zone and neutral zone starts. Look at the faceoff data and compare the LA game to the Devils game.

A big part of why Couturier and Giroux have to take so many D zone starts is because the Flyers normally have to take a high number of defensive zone faceoffs. Couturier is always going to have a higher ratio compared to his teammates.
- MJL

You're not understanding what I'm saying. The flyers aren't going to take less defensive zone starts until they get better players. They aren't a very good team. The coach can control who takes defensive zone starts though. Whether it's 4 or 400, he should look to distribute them a little more evenly. That's what I'm saying.

Anybody know what the total number of offensive, defensive, and neutral zone starts are for the team this season?

Since when is Chris Pronger a tattle tale?
- jmatchett383

There was a story that said he might've explained to the league before he got hired in Hockey Ops exactly how that deal was structured, but nothing more came of it. No way to know for sure, so that's why I qualified it

Anybody know what the total number of offensive, defensive, and neutral zone starts are for the team this season?
- BulliesPhan87

Several of each, more of some than others.

Check out Murray Craven:

http://www.tsn.ca/former-...ise-in-las-vegas-1.158278
- Pixote Andolini

Really hope this falls through.

Ha! You know what? Point made -- they should be working to get better defensively.
- AllInForFlyers

The key to success is having balanced lines. Teams go out of their way to break up their best forwards in order to distribute talent evenly. That's why Toews and Kane don't play much together.

If guys like Schenn and Simmonds can only be effective when given offensive zone starts much more frequently, how good are they?

The real value is in the players who can be deployed in all situations and be productive

You're not understanding what I'm saying. The flyers aren't going to take less defensive zone starts until they get better players. They aren't a very good team. The coach can control who takes defensive zone starts though. Whether it's 4 or 400, he should look to distribute them a little more evenly. That's what I'm saying.
- PhillySportsGuy

I understand that, and that's been discussed ad nauseum. My point is that if there are 50 faceoffs in a game, and 30 of them are in the Flyers D zone, then Couturier is going to have a high percentage of D zone draws. If it's the other way around, and the Flyer have 30 in the offensive zone, then Couturier is going to take a lesser percentage of his shifts in the D zone. That the Flyers are a weak 5 on 5 team, has an effect there.

Whats the difference between VLC or even Umby for that matter and with what NJ has just done with Brunner?

Whats the difference between VLC or even Umby for that matter and with what NJ has just done with Brunner?
- Trainfellow

Mutual willingness to terminate the contract, I think. I don't think Umberger or VLC are willing to forfeit millions of dollars.

I understand that, and that's been discussed ad nauseum. My point is that if there are 50 faceoffs in a game, and 30 of them are in the Flyers D zone, then Couturier is going to have a high percentage of D zone draws. If it's the other way around, and the Flyer have 30 in the offensive zone, then Couturier is going to take a lesser percentage of his shifts in the D zone. That the Flyers are a weak 5 on 5 team, has an effect there.
- MJL

Never mind

NHL Network tonight

Sarnia vs Kitchener

Zacha is not playing he's at the CZECHS WJC camp

But you might be able to watch Nikita Korostelev
- ob18

Read and Couturier definitely have room for improvement, but I truly believe getting better zone starts will really help them. Winning a face off and moving the puck up ice and getting possession in the offensive zone is very difficult to do in today's NHL. When you consider the type of defenseman they're forced to play with, it becomes even harder.

Read and Couts do the heavy lifting so guys like G and Jake get to take more offensive zone starts with guys like Streit and MDZ on the ice.

Imo, they are asking way too much of Read and Couts if they want them to match up against top lines, take tons of dzone face offs, carry Umberger and produce points at the rate of a solid 2nd line.
- PhillySportsGuy

Would you really call them our 2nd line at this point? On paper I would certainly think that 10-49-17 has more offensive firepower than 18-14-24. Schenn is obviously better than Umberger in the offensive zone. I would say 49/14 are a wash in the offensive zone and give the edge to Cooters in the defensive zone. I'd take Simmonds over Read in the offensive zone and vice versa in the defensive zone.

I understand we want to give Couturier the opportunity to flourish offensively, but someone has to be taking defensive zone draws. Do you really want to take offensive zone time away from G/Voracek? You certainly don't want our 4th line taking the majority of D zone draws. As it stands right now - 18-14-24 is better served for D zone starts than 10-49-17.

If you want Laughton taking more D zone draws, swap Schenn back to the first line and put Raffl on Laughton's LW. Then you all can start arguing on how Laughton isn't producing and is becoming a product of his usage.

Gotcha, I agree.
- MJL

Me too

The key to success is having balanced lines. Teams go out of their way to break up their best forwards in order to distribute talent evenly. That's why Toews and Kane don't play much together.

If guys like Schenn and Simmonds can only be effective when given offensive zone starts much more frequently, how good are they?

The real value is in the players who can be deployed in all situations and be productive
- PhillySportsGuy

Agreed -- you are right. Can't very well be a two-way team that checks first if weaker defensive players don't find ways to improve