It's actually not.

SJ, BUF, TOR, CGY, MTL have started 60-120 more total shifts in the dzone than the Flyers thus far this season. How come none of their C's are up there w/ Coots?

How come the guy closest to Coots in ZS-rel (Frans Nielsen) hails from the team with the 6th-highest ZS%?

Please explain how that fits into your common sense argument.
- Tomahawk

Every team is different. A team like San Jose has a shut down defenseman in Vlasic. The Flyers don't have a legitimate top defense pairing. They aren't a strong ES team. Their team defense is suspect. You're making the mistake in thinking that's the only reason I'm offering for why Couturier's D zone start percentage is so high, when I'm only offering it as a variable. There is no doubt that if the Flyers were able to push play better, and create more O zone start situations, then Couturier would see less D zone starts than he does.

http://m.bleacherreport.c...ent-lecavalier-in-2014-15

Good analysis of the Vinny conundrum by Jonathon Willis.

Hopefully come July 2nd Hextall can find a deal, even if it means carrying dead cap space for a couple years. The buyout is terrible.

My main issue with the heavy defensive use of Couturier is, and I feel this strongly, that it's been detrimental to the development of his overall game and stagnated his development as an offensive threat.

I fully understand he's a very good defensive guy and as such he's going to be asked to carry a big load.

That said, the sheer weight of his load is almost unique in the NHL when compared to other top 9 forwards. The disparity in his O-zone and D-zone starts is huge. I'd rather see Couturier become a 50 point player and see his zone starts more in line with the percentage that guys like Bergeron see, or even a bit more even in regards to his own teammates, rather than have him stay a 35-40 point guy while getting buried.
- Jsaquella

The Flyers are going to have to become a stronger 5 on 5 team, and develop a stronger balance through all 4 lines for that to happen.

I agreed with PSG earlier -- there are other guys who need to improve defensively so that load could be shared a bit more
- AllInForFlyers

I think we're going to see that happen. In the Devils game, Laughton took the most D zone draws on the team. As Laughton develops, and he's been pretty good on faceoffs, I think he can help share the load.

Flyers might have signed 6th rounder Radel Fazleev to an ELC.He thanked the Flyers for the Christmas gift on twitter & reporters are joking with him about a new contract

Flyers might have signed 6th rounder Radel Fazleev to an ELC.He thanked the Flyers for the Christmas gift on twitter & reporters are joking with him about a new contract
- Jsaquella

Good for him -- like to see late-rounders show improvement like he has, no matter what organization they are in

http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles/2298402-are-the-philadelphia-flyers-mishandling-vincent-lecavalier-in-2014-15

Good analysis of the Vinny conundrum by Jonathon Willis.

Hopefully come July 2nd Hextall can find a deal, even if it means carrying dead cap space for a couple years. The buyout is terrible.
- Jsaquella

I just wouldn't buy him out. I'd buy Umberger out, first.

But for me, Vinny sits. You can tell him to stay home if he wants. But the only thing that can make this worse for the Flyers is if they go above-and-beyond to shed the salary, and there are just too many years at a high rate left.

It sucks for him. I get that. But what does anybody want the Flyers to do, here? How many times do you have to pay for a mistake? It's a bad deal, and it's unfortunate, but the penalty should be carrying the cap hit, not giving up more to make it go away -- and believe me, I want this to go away

I just wouldn't buy him out. I'd buy Umberger out, first.

But for me, Vinny sits. You can tell him to stay home if he wants. But the only thing that can make this worse for the Flyers is if they go above-and-beyond to shed the salary, and there are just too many years at a high rate left.

It sucks for him. I get that. But what does anybody want the Flyers to do, here? How many times do you have to pay for a mistake? It's a bad deal, and it's unfortunate, but the penalty should be carrying the cap hit, not giving up more to make it go away -- and believe me, I want this to go away
- AllInForFlyers

If I was going to keep one out of Lecavalier and Umberger, I buy out Lecavalier, and keep Umberger. I'd rather have a useful 4th line winger and Pker then Lecavalier. Where are you going to play him? What good does sending him home do?

The Flyers need to take a page from how to be ruthless from Glen Sather.

No, they can't bury VLC in the minors, like Slats did with Wade Redden. But he had no problems with basically ending Redden's NHL career because that contract couldn't be traded.

The Flyers will have three more years left of VLC's deal after this one. If you can move it and throw in, say, a fourth-rounder for future considerations, fine.

But I'm sorry. If it was me, I'd play it like Slats: Collect your money, which is your right. That is the deal that was negotiated.

But they don't have to play you, they only have to pay you, and the player has to understand that.

If I was going to keep one out of Lecavalier and Umberger, I buy out Lecavalier, and keep Umberger. I'd rather have a useful 4th line winger and Pker then Lecavalier. Where are you going to play him? What good does sending him home do?
- MJL

There are no winners in this scenario. So the Flyers have to figure out how to mitigate the losses, and paying Lecavalier for six more years instead of three is not the way to go about that.

If Vinny doesn't like it, he can retire. But this situation doesn't mean the Flyers have to be penalized for six more years when the contract only calls for three.

There are no winners in this scenario. So the Flyers have to figure out how to mitigate the losses, and paying Lecavalier for six more years instead of three is not the way to go about that.

If Vinny doesn't like it, he can retire. But this situation doesn't mean the Flyers have to be penalized for six more years when the contract only calls for three.
- AllInForFlyers

The buyout is a better situation then the one you propose of letting him sit and not playing him. The last 3 years of the buyout is chump change. And you get 1.6M to work with in the first 3 years, rather then paying 4.5M and getting nothing out of it.

There is no doubt that if the Flyers were able to push play better, and create more O zone start situations, then Couturier would see less D zone starts than he does.
- MJL

The day this team becomes good 5v5, yeah, it'll help out some.

Until that day, which seems pretty far away, there are definitely ways of doling out icetime in a way that doesn't pile the entire defensive burden on just two forwards, one of which is a kid whom is pretty critical to this secondary scoring thing that we keep hearing about.

The buyout is a better situation then the one you propose of letting him sit and not playing him. The last 3 years of the buyout is chump change. And you get 1.6M to work with in the first 3 years, rather then paying 4.5M and getting nothing out of it.
- MJL

We can agree to disagree; I feel differently. His cap hit's 4.5 for the next three years, regardless. Yes, you get the benefit of the 1.6 million, but you get more than that from an Umberger buyout, fewer years on that cap hit, AND you would be free and clear of Lecavalier when Umberger's buyout is done.

The day this team becomes good 5v5, yeah, it'll help out some.

Until that day, which seems pretty far away, there are definitely ways of doling out icetime in a way that doesn't pile the entire defensive burden on just two forwards, one which is a kid whom is pretty critical to this secondary scoring thing that we keep hearing about.
- Tomahawk

It help out a lot more then some, it'll help out a ton. A coach can do anything he wants to do. He can give Couturier zero defensive zone starts. I agree that there is too much of a burden on Couturier defensively. I don't put that on the coach. I think he deploys Couturier and Read that way because it gives the team the best chance to win. And I think it's absurd, with considering all the factors, and the roster that he has to work with, and the situations that the team sees on the ice, to criticize him for it. Now that Laughton has been added to the team, the last few weeks some things have changed. A lot still depends on matchups, and game situations, but Couturier has seen some games where his D zone starts have been low. Let's not forget that this only counts shifts that start with a faceoff, and there are plenty of other shifts for Couturier in a game. Also, Couturier has been able to score at a solid level at ES, even with how he has been deployed.

i still don't get the vinny hate

We can agree to disagree; I feel differently. His cap hit's 4.5 for the next three years, regardless. Yes, you get the benefit of the 1.6 million, but you get more than that from an Umberger buyout, fewer years on that cap hit, AND you would be free and clear of Lecavalier when Umberger's buyout is done.
- AllInForFlyers

When Umberger's buyout is done, you'd have 2 years of carrying an 888K cap hit for Lecavalier, which is peanuts. Carrying a 4.5M cap hit and not being able to use the player, while sitting him, is not the way to go in my opinion.

When Umberger's buyout is done, you'd have 2 years of carrying an 888K cap hit for Lecavalier, which is peanuts. Carrying a 4.5M cap hit and not being able to use the player, while sitting him, is not the way to go in my opinion.
- MJL

And that's why we can agree to disagree

Down the road, I can see some issues coming up with regards to a situation like we have with Lecavalier. If the Flyers just decide not to play him, they are essentially ending Lecavalier's career. I could see the NHLPA having an issue with that.

Down the road, I can see some issues coming up with regards to a situation like we have with Lecavalier. If the Flyers just decide not to play him, they are essentially ending Lecavalier's career. I could see the NHLPA having an issue with that.
- MJL

How? The player's getting paid -- there's no precedent in professional sports history that says a player under contract has to be on a gameday roster AND play.

Scott Gomez went through this. Wade Redden was in the minors for two-plus seasons. Jody Shelley sat for the majority of the final two seasons of his contract.

Vincent Lecavalier's no better than anyone else, when it comes to how his situation is handled.

Down the road, I can see some issues coming up with regards to a situation like we have with Lecavalier. If the Flyers just decide not to play him, they are essentially ending Lecavalier's career. I could see the NHLPA having an issue with that.
- MJL

They couldn't do jack poop about it if they wanted. The goal is to win games. Not make everyone happy.

Vinny is on track to be the highest paid player in NHL history when all is said and done. Boo hoo.

How? The player's getting paid -- there's no precedent in professional sports history that says a player under contract has to be on a gameday roster AND play.

Scott Gomez went through this. Wade Redden was in the minors for two-plus seasons. Jody Shelley sat for the majority of the final two seasons of his contract.

Vincent Lecavalier's no better than anyone else, when it comes to how his situation is handled.
- AllInForFlyers

You're right about all of that. I just think as this kind of thing happens more and more, if it does, it's going to cause some sort of action by the NHLPA to fight for a better alternative. All kinds of issues to consider in this situation.

i still don't get the vinny hate
- 2Real

Probably still trying to figure out Inception too.

They couldn't do jack poop about it if they wanted. The goal is to win games. Not make everyone happy.

Vinny is on track to be the highest paid player in NHL history when all is said and done. Boo hoo.
- hereticpride

I don't know that they couldn't do jack poop about it. I think if this situation becomes more common in the future, it could cause some issues down the road.

For the record, I don't have a problem with Lecavalier sitting. I wouldn't play him right now either.

You're right about all of this. I just think as this kind of thing happens more and more, if it does, it's going to cause some sort of action by the NHLPA to fight for a better alternative. All kinds of issues to consider in this situation.
- MJL

Then vets can start signing one year deals. No one is forcing them to take on these long contracts. In fact they're the ones demanding them.

Then vets can start signing one year deals. No one is forcing them to take on these long contracts. In fact they're the ones demanding them.
- hereticpride

Also true. I just think there should be some mechanism, where a team is better able to deal with this situation. Contracts can be mutually terminated, but that's normally when a player wants out of the NHL.