In Brunner's case, both sides agreed to terminate the contract. I don't think Pronger could do the same, because his is 35+ deal and would have to be bought out. Not a lot of benefit in doing that - cap wise. Besides, why would Pronger want to walk away from $15 million owed to him?
- Tanuki

I am not disagreeing with you, but that seems a little to easy to do. So if the Blackhawks win another SC this season, and Hossa gets beat up again and feels he doesn't want to continue playing in the NHL, but wants to focus on being coach of Slovakia's national team, both sides can agree to terminate his contract, and, poof, it's off the books? Why hasn't this happened before with teams that are cap-strapped?

Per Chris Kuc...Toews is on the ice for morning skate.

Chris Kuc called the Hawks "irresponsible" for letting Toews stay in the game after the hit by Seidenberg.
- jhawk159

Well, they kinda were.

I am not disagreeing with you, but that seems a little to easy to do. So if the Blackhawks win another SC this season, and Hossa gets beat up again and feels he doesn't want to continue playing in the NHL, but wants to focus on being coach of Slovakia's national team, both sides can agree to terminate his contract, and, poof, it's off the books? Why hasn't this happened before with teams that are cap-strapped?
- powerenforcer

The CBA has strict and draconian consequences on the unbalanced contracts - such as Hossa's and Pronger's - signed under the previous CBA - specifying the future cap hits if the player should retire before the contract has ended - in effect, a recapture of the cap savings in the early years of the contract.

The teams/players cannot just mutually agree to terminate the contract and eliminate the future cap hits. It's why Pronger has to be on LTIR, and why we need to hope that when Hossa wants out, HE can go on LTIR.

For those of you who were wondering about how a termination of a contract works, and it's cap implications, here's a good summary:

http://capgeek.com/faq/ho...-is-a-contract-terminated

The CBA has strict and draconian consequences on the unbalanced contracts - such as Hossa's and Pronger's - signed under the previous CBA - specifying the future cap hits if the player should retire before the contract has ended - in effect, a recapture of the cap savings in the early years of the contract.

The teams/players cannot just mutually agree to terminate the contract and eliminate the future cap hits. It's why Pronger has to be on LTIR, and why we need to hope that when Hossa wants out, HE can go on LTIR.
- StLBravesFan

Well said.

For those of you who were wondering about how a termination of a contract works, and it's cap implications, here's a good summary:

http://capgeek.com/faq/ho...-is-a-contract-terminated
- MartiniMan

Thanks for finding this.

There's something really wrong with this Hawks team. Something is missing, they aren't very good and will be lucky to be a 6-8 seed.

That Kane kid? Totally NOT worth the contract he signed. Remember guys... this team is NOT one of the better teams in the league.
- CaptainBlackhawk

Kane for Kessel

Thanks for finding this.
- Tanuki

Yes - does raise questions.

Well, they kinda were.
- MartiniMan

I agree but I was surprised Kuc actually said it.

I am not disagreeing with you, but that seems a little to easy to do. So if the Blackhawks win another SC this season, and Hossa gets beat up again and feels he doesn't want to continue playing in the NHL, but wants to focus on being coach of Slovakia's national team, both sides can agree to terminate his contract, and, poof, it's off the books? Why hasn't this happened before with teams that are cap-strapped?
- powerenforcer

MM posts a link above. Here is the language for termination. Doubtful Hossa would ever qualify even without his designation as a contract attempting to circumvent the cap under the previous CBA.

***************

How is a contract terminated?

A team can terminate a contract outright without requiring a buyout if the player is to "fail, refuse or neglect to obey the club's rules governing training and conduct of players" or "fail, refuse or neglect to render his services hereunder or in any other manner materially breach his" contract.

The player must clear unconditional waivers before such a termination.

This typically occurs after a player has cleared regular waivers for the purpose of minor-league assignment and refuses the assignment. After the contract is terminated, the player receives no further compensation and the team is free of all salary cap obligations.

These are typically mutual agreements between the player and team where both parties wish to part ways. For example, the team wants to sever ties and be free of any compensation and cap obligations; the player does not want to report to the AHL and has a more appealing contract offer overseas.

While this typically occurs regularly with lower-level players and prospects, there have been a several higher profile examples, including:

Damien Brunner, 2014-15
Matthew Lombardi, 2014-15
Alexander Salak, 2012-13
Brendan Shanahan, 2009-10

I agree but I was surprised Kuc actually said it.
- jhawk159

A surprising burst of objective independence from Kuc. McDonough will probably have a talk with him about it.

For all of you ledge jumpers out there who pine for the departed Pirris, Leddys, etc., or who want to trade a core player after a loss (or bungled powerplay, for that matter), have a look at the putrid team stats in Cordell's Devils-Stars preview, or better yet, check out Viktor Fasth's disdain for his mask after getting yanked in Edmonton's loss to the Ducks last night.



These are heady times to be a Blackhawks fan, and it's not over yet. Life is good.

That is all.

JMHO but if I were Rocky, I tell Toews he's sitting out the next few games and I'm not listening to any counter arguements by Toews. I Tell Sharp he has to center the first line and keep the lines the same as when Sharp was out. Do it for a week.

For all of you ledge jumpers out there who pine for the departed Pirris, Leddys, etc., or who want to trade a core player after a loss (or bungled powerplay, for that matter), have a look at the putrid team stats in Cordell's Devils-Stars preview, or better yet, check out Viktor Fasth's disdain for his mask after getting yanked in Edmonton's loss to the Ducks last night.



These are heady times to be a Blackhawks fan, and it's not over yet. Life is good.

That is all.
- MartiniMan

Hockey hell in Edmonton. They deserve better and many of us can certainly remember what it was like.

Unless there is a major shift there in management I wouldn't be surprised if McDavid or Eichel pull a Lindros if the Oilers get the 1st pick.

A surprising burst of objective independence from Kuc. McDonough will probably have a talk with him about it.
- tredbrta

No buffet for you!

The CBA has strict and draconian consequences on the unbalanced contracts.
- StLBravesFan

Unless you are the New Jersey Devils. See: Ilya Kovalchuk. Not only is the long term cap hit a mere $250K per year, but Lou L got to keep his first round pick - just has to pick last.

Still no definitive consistency on this from the NHL. Typical.

MM posts a link above. Here is the language for termination. Doubtful Hossa would ever qualify even without his designation as a contract attempting to circumvent the cap under the previous CBA.

***************

How is a contract terminated?

A team can terminate a contract outright without requiring a buyout if the player is to "fail, refuse or neglect to obey the club's rules governing training and conduct of players" or "fail, refuse or neglect to render his services hereunder or in any other manner materially breach his" contract.

The player must clear unconditional waivers before such a termination.

This typically occurs after a player has cleared regular waivers for the purpose of minor-league assignment and refuses the assignment. After the contract is terminated, the player receives no further compensation and the team is free of all salary cap obligations.

These are typically mutual agreements between the player and team where both parties wish to part ways. For example, the team wants to sever ties and be free of any compensation and cap obligations; the player does not want to report to the AHL and has a more appealing contract offer overseas.

While this typically occurs regularly with lower-level players and prospects, there have been a several higher profile examples, including:

Damien Brunner, 2014-15
Matthew Lombardi, 2014-15
Alexander Salak, 2012-13
Brendan Shanahan, 2009-10
- tredbrta

You are all missing the issue with Hossa. When the Hawks signed him - they front loaded the contract by paying him 25 million in the first year - then the deal would diminish down to a million a year for the last 5 or 6 years. They thought they could take the 25 million hit on their cap in the first year because they had it available - but the NHL stepped in and said no to this. They had to average it out over the life of the deal - about 5.3 million a year. But here is where the NHL's punishment comes in - if Hossa were to retire before the deal is done - the Hawks must maintain 80 percent of the cap hit - about 4.2 million - on their books until the contract expires. So he will be on their cap until 2022 - regardless of him playing or retiring.

You are all missing the issue with Hossa. When the Hawks signed him - they front loaded the contract by paying him 25 million in the first year - then the deal would diminish down to a million a year for the last 5 or 6 years. They thought they could take the 25 million hit on their cap in the first year because they had it available - but the NHL stepped in and said no to this. They had to average it out over the life of the deal - about 5.3 million a year. But here is where the NHL's punishment comes in - if Hossa were to retire before the deal is done - the Hawks must maintain 80 percent of the cap hit - about 4.2 million - on their books until the contract expires. So he will be on their cap until 2022 - regardless of him playing or retiring.
- dahawks8819

That's what I meant by "draconian" in my post - and this rule was "passed" in the new CBA while his legal (at the time) contract was signed four years earlier - a penalty introduced retroactively long after.

That's what I meant by "draconian" in my post - and this rule was "passed" in the new CBA while his legal (at the time) contract was signed four years earlier - a penalty introduced retroactively long after.
- StLBravesFan

It was passed so teams could not circumvent the hard salary cap. It was meant to keep a competitive balance.

It was passed so teams could not circumvent the hard salary cap. It was meant to keep a competitive balance.
- dahawks8819

But to have it apply to contracts already signed should not have been allowed - can't change the "terms" of a contract (including the cap effects) retroactively - that's just punishing a team for something that was legalwhen they did it years before.

But to have it apply to contracts already signed should not have been allowed - can't change the "terms" of a contract (including the cap effects) retroactively - that's just punishing a team do something that was legal years before.
- StLBravesFan

That was simply a matter of those GMs/Owners who hadn't signed contracts like Hossa's and Luongo's flipping off those who had.

But to have it apply to contracts already signed should not have been allowed - can't change the "terms" of a contract (including the cap effects) retroactively - that's just punishing a team for something that was legalwhen they did it years before.
- StLBravesFan

The way the Hawks did it was not the way the rules were set up for all the teams to follow. Once the league office realized it - they punished them accordingly. I am a huge Hawk fan - and I agree with the league with the punishment they doled out. The rules should apply to all teams. It was a nice try - but I would have thought the Hawks management contacted the league front office before putting final pen to paper. It was a mistake on their part not to.

But to have it apply to contracts already signed should not have been allowed - can't change the "terms" of a contract (including the cap effects) retroactively - that's just punishing a team for something that was legalwhen they did it years before.
- StLBravesFan

And it was not legal when they did it. That's why they were punished.

The way the Hawks did it was not the way the rules were set up for all the teams to follow. Once the league office realized it - they punished them accordingly. I am a huge Hawk fan - and I agree with the league with the punishment they doled out. The rules should apply to all teams. It was a nice try - but I would have thought the Hawks management contacted the league front office before putting final pen to paper. It was a mistake on their part not to.
- dahawks8819

What was not legal about it?

Didn't the league have to approve it when it was signed?

And if was was illegal - why didn't the league cancel the contract?

I can't believe the rest of the league would have let the Hawks get by with an illegal contract to a player who solidified a championship team.