Or we could all just give a bit less of a (frank) about what others think, and whether we agree we it? Blah blah.
- flyer_nutter

Your response to my comment crediting Holmgren for acquiring Voracek was a good start!

- flyer_nutter

Yeah, sorry, I was thinking that as well.

Your response to my comment crediting Holmgren for acquiring Voracek was a good start!

- MJL

It made me laugh a bit (on the inside anyway). Couldn't help it.

It did. The trouble is, some people feel like if you criticize anything about him, you need to include a litany of his good moves or you're not being objective about his tenure. Same goes for Berube or anyone else associated with the team.

Holmgren absolutely did some great things as GM. He took over a team that finished in last place and had it in the Stanley Cup Final in the space of 4 years. You don't do that unless you make some good moves.

The trouble is, the Flyers right now are an expensive, mediocre team. That's part of the legacy, as well. As with most things, there's good and bad. Ignoring the bad and constantly touting the good doesn't make one a better fan, it makes one a cheerleader, not an objective fan.
- Jsaquella

I think Homer, like Clarke, was a good GM..........., until the salary cap came along.
Different ballgame.

It made me laugh a bit (on the inside anyway). Couldn't help it.
- flyer_nutter

You made my point!

You made my point!

- MJL

Day 6/7. Huh?

no question. My response was intended for those that seem to ignore the good and constantly point out the bad
- Crimsoninja

There are some that ignore the good. Every site has trolls. It's just funny when people take it upon themselves to be the arbiters of opinion. The Flyers currently are 22nd in the NHL with 27 points. They spend more than $4mm more in salary than any other NHL team. That's a valid reason for criticism, even if there's valid extenuating circumstances for that situation.

I think Homer, like Clarke, was a good GM..........., until the salary cap came along.
Different ballgame.
- puckhead17

I think we're going to find that Flyers are a team that is always going to be up against the Cap. I'm amazed that only the bad signings are ever mentioned, and never the really good signings that he made in the cap era. Some of the signings that are labeled bad signings, are debatable.

There are some that ignore the good. Every site has trolls. It's just funny when people take it upon themselves to be the arbiters of opinion. The Flyers currently are 22nd in the NHL with 27 points. They spend more than $4mm more in salary than any other NHL team. That's a valid reason for criticism, even if there's valid extenuating circumstances for that situation.
- Jsaquella

You might have a point if it was being said that there aren't valid criticisms to be made. That's not the case.

How many NHL teams have two top defenseman on LTIR? I assume that's part of the extenuating circumstances.

I think we're going to find that Flyers are a team that is always going to be up against the Cap. I'm amazed that only the bad signings are ever mentioned, and never the really good signings that he made in the cap era. Some of the signings that are labeled bad signings, are debatable.
- MJL

The team is kind of a trash fire right now. Boring with little identity. Mediocre. Hoping Giroux/V are still good when the D improves enough to build a winner.

If they were playing like the Hawks or near the top of the pyramid in regard to NHL clubs you'd hear a bit more of a lighter vibe. Why is that shocking?

I think we're going to find that Flyers are a team that is always going to be up against the Cap. I'm amazed that only the bad signings are ever mentioned, and never the really good signings that he made in the cap era. Some of the signings that are labeled bad signings, are debatable.
- MJL

Many issues, on an individual basis can be debated when it comes to Homer's, (or Clarke as well), tenure as GM.

Clarke was known for the grand slam Leclair, Desjardins, deal, Homer maybe for the 4 players he acquired within a 1/2 hour, for his 2 cornerstone centers.

But, the salary cap made things more difficult, and, (just my opinion), separated the good GM's, from the "eeeeeehhhhhh" ones.

The team is kind of a trash fire right now. Boring with little identity. Mediocre. Hoping Giroux/V are still good when the D improves enough to build a winner.

If they were playing like the Hawks or near the top of the pyramid in regard to NHL clubs you'd hear a bit more of a lighter vibe. Why is that shocking?
- flyer_nutter

Sorry, your glass isn't half empty, its shattered.

Sorry, your glass isn't half empty, its shattered.
- puckhead17

No mercy.

The team is kind of a trash fire right now. Boring with little identity. Mediocre. Hoping Giroux/V are still good when the D improves enough to build a winner.

If they were playing like the Hawks or near the top of the pyramid in regard to NHL clubs you'd hear a bit more of a lighter vibe. Why is that shocking?
- flyer_nutter

First of all, if anyone had the expectations that this current team was going to play like the Hawks, then the expectation is the problem there.

Secondly, my outlook on this team has not changed. They are a middle of the pack team, with some holes in it's roster, and some areas where they need to improve. They are also a team with a strong young core to build around, that has a lot of promise for the future. The recent losing streak has not changed that outlook for me. I still see them as a team that can challenge for the playoffs. Nothing more, nothing less. I still believe in the core of this team and that it's future is bright.

unfortunately for those who get off on bashing him, his tenure as GM actually did have alot of positive points.
- Crimsoninja

STFU

Many issues, on an individual basis can be debated when it comes to Homer's, (or Clarke as well), tenure as GM.

Clarke was known for the grand slam Leclair, Desjardins, deal, Homer maybe for the 4 players he acquired within a 1/2 hour, for his 2 cornerstone centers.

But, the salary cap made things more difficult, and, (just my opinion), separated the good GM's, from the "eeeeeehhhhhh" ones.
- puckhead17

If we look at some of the GM's that are considered good GM's, most have blemishes on their resume also. And I still maintain that the philosophy of the Cap, and how to work with it, is misunderstood by many.

STFU
- PhillySportsGuy

i dont think ob18 will appreciate this

i dont think ob18 will appreciate this
- Crimsoninja

He's cleaning my tub as we speak

- flyer_nutter

i miss scary spice being on the crew

I think Homer, like Clarke, was a good GM..........., until the salary cap came along.
Different ballgame.
- puckhead17

Homer always had to deal with the cap. Holmgren's issues coincided with his gamble on Pronger being able to remain a Norris caliber defenseman for the life of his contract.

Holmgren tried to retool a contender, while at the same time remaining one. His bet was that Pronger and Timonen would be able to provide a solid bedrock foundation while he transitioned from the Carter-Richards based forwards corps to the Giroux led group.

He found that Pronger was irreplaceable without giving up assets that he was unwilling to part with. He made the decision to double down, surrender other assets for guys who could partially fill that hole and keep the team competitive.

It's led to a team that is only just now restocking the cupboard systemically, that has an expensive and mediocre defense corps and expensive veterans who are definitely underperforming given their salaries.

But he did assemble the core that we all hope can lead to glory in the next few years. Giroux and Voracek give the Flyers as deadly a one-two punch as almost any team in the NHL. There's several very good secondary pieces in Simmonds, Couturier, Bryaden Schenn and Laughton who are all young.

Unfortunately the Flyers likely face a couple of seasons of not being a strong contender as they correct the issues born out of the losses or Pronger(and to a lesser extent Timonen) combined with the dealing of picks to attempt to fill the hole left by Pronger's injury.

.

He's cleaning my tub as we speak
- PhillySportsGuy

Reverse the letters of "tub" and we've got a really interesting story coming up.

He's cleaning my tub as we speak
- PhillySportsGuy

The length of Briere's signing was to mitigate his cap hit and the deal was frontloaded to entice him to come to Philly as a UFA after the team was coming off the worst year in franchise history. His signing was a huge part of the team's turnaround and his playoff stats alone made him worth every bit of the deal, let alone what he meant as a dressing room guy and team representative in other ways. The last few years of the deal and the buyout at the end --- which were solely due to the cap going down and the amnesty option to eliminate the cap hit -- were a small price to pay when everything is considered
- bmeltzer

Thank you Bill.

Briere was a great Flyer.

He even took in Giroux when he was homeless.

Homer always had to deal with the cap. Holmgren's issues coincided with his gamble on Pronger being able to remain a Norris caliber defenseman for the life of his contract.

Holmgren tried to retool a contender, while at the same time remaining one. His bet was that Pronger and Timonen would be able to provide a solid bedrock foundation while he transitioned from the Carter-Richards based forwards corps to the Giroux led group.

He found that Pronger was irreplaceable without giving up assets that he was unwilling to part with. He made the decision to double down, surrender other assets for guys who could partially fill that hole and keep the team competitive.

It's led to a team that is only just now restocking the cupboard systemically, that has an expensive and mediocre defense corps and expensive veterans who are definitely underperforming given their salaries.

Bu he did assemble the core that we all hope can lead to glory in the next few years. Giroux and Voracek give the Flyers as deadly a one-two punch as almost any team in the NHL. There's several very good secondary pieces in Simmonds, Couturier, Bryaden Schenn and Laughton who are all young.

But the Flyers likely face a couple of seasons of not being a strong contender as they correct the issues born out of the losses or Pronger(and to a lesser extent Timonen) combined with the dealing of picks to attempt to fill the hole left by Pronger's injury.
- Jsaquella

Very well put!
Retooling, over rebuilding.
But, another problem, the nicely assembled core mentioned above leaves us unbalanced without defense, (as you mentioned earlier).
I know its hindsight, but the 4 players acquired should have included a defenseman.