This team seems like it is really only about three players away from being a legit top tier competitor.

First they need the all around #1 franchise D.
Also need a top 4, two way defenseman with a right handed shot.
Third, another winger who is a playmaker and can create on his own, preferably a LW.

That's not too much for a GM to acquire, is it?


- Marc D

Hexy: I just turned that exact deal down...

I agree on the needs. Doesn't seem like a lot, but it really is.
- MJL

Yes I was being a bit glib.

Two of the three players have to likely come from the draft.

Maybe they can fill one of the holes via trade or UFA.

It's going to take some time to get back into the top tier.
They do have a nice core though, even with the holes.

I understand that. But the typical responses are made during a losing streak, such as this player is a bum, this player is overrated, etc. Personally, I'm going to give Matt Read the benefit of the doubt, and view the player we've seen in previous seasons, and for the last few games, is more indicative of the player that Read is, versus the first quarter of this season.
- MJL

Yup. I think most of us are pretty clear who the dead weight forwards are on this team. On D, it's a little trickier.

Yup. I think most of us are pretty clear who the dead weight forwards are on this team. On D, it's a little trickier.
- wolfhounds

It is a little trickier on D. They're all solid NHL defenseman. I think the team has to make at least one, if not two open slots for young players to advance onto the team, next season. They have to decide who they're going to keep, and who they are going to try and move.

Kudos for beating a decimated Jersey team and a weak Carolina club. Both were must wins. However I still think this team misses the playoffs. I just don't think they have the depth up front nor enough top end talent on D to be a playoff team. I hope I'm wrong but that is how I feel.

This team seems like it is really only about three players away from being a legit top tier competitor.

First they need the all around #1 franchise D.
Also need a top 4, two way defenseman with a right handed shot.
Third, another winger who is a playmaker and can create on his own, preferably a LW.

That's not too much for a GM to acquire, is it?


- Marc D

Hextall is working on that. He has a plan.

My biggest criticism of Holmgren isn't the Schenn for JvR deal, or even relying on Pronger being a stud for more years than he ended up lasting.

My biggest issue with Holmgren was he seemed to be on a year to year plan, rather than a long term plan. He ended up painting himself into a bit of a corner when Pronger was lost and it got worse(for Hexy) when Timonen ended up being lost.

Before he'd always been able to swing a deal and land a guy. Now that he was in a spot where it became an absolute need, other GM's could bend him over a table.

It got compounded with choices like Lecavalier. But it was also evident in moves like MacDonald.

I'm not trying to shred MacDonald. But they paid a lot to add him and he's not the top pair guy that they needed. But Holmgren decided to utilize assets to moderately improve the team in the short term. They were likely a playoff team, but Holmgren decided that he could expend a second rounder in a deep 2015 draft and it failed to work.

It is a little trickier on D. They're all solid NHL defenseman. I think the team has to make at least one, if not two open slots for young players to advance onto the team, next season. They have to decide who they're going to keep, and who they are going to try and move.
- MJL

It would be nice if any of the D prospects are ready next year, but in reality it may be 2 (or more) seasons before they are in the NHL full time.

Next year may be a similar patch work on D that we see this year.

I'm not trying to shred MacDonald. But they paid a lot to add him and he's not the top pair guy that they needed. But Holmgren decided to utilize assets to moderately improve the team in the short term. They were likely a playoff team, but Holmgren decided that he could expend a second rounder in a deep 2015 draft and it failed to work.
- Jsaquella

In my opinion this is looking at it from a flawed perspective. MacDonald is signed for 6 years. He wasn't a playoff rental, he was an acquisition made for the long term. He hasn't even played one full season in a Flyers uniform yet. So it is incredibly premature to say it failed to work. And I'll trade a 2nd rounder for a quality defenseman like MacDonald, every time if it fills a need.

It would be nice if any of the D prospects are ready next year, but in reality it may be 2 (or more) seasons before they are in the NHL full time.

Next year may be a similar patch work on D that we see this year.
- Marc D

I can see Hagg or Ghost being ready to come up and contribute at some point next year, Morin maybe by 16-17 and Sanheim the following year.

It would be nice if any of the D prospects are ready next year, but in reality it may be 2 (or more) seasons before they are in the NHL full time.

Next year may be a similar patch work on D that we see this year.
- Marc D

That's possible. I thought earlier in the year that Gostisbehere plays one year in the AHL then makes the big club next season. His injury may have set him back one year. I think there is a good chance that Morin starts the year on the Phantoms. Don't know if Sanheim can make the jump. So they do have to be careful about what moves they make.

Hextall is working on that. He has a plan.

My biggest criticism of Holmgren isn't the Schenn for JvR deal, or even relying on Pronger being a stud for more years than he ended up lasting.

My biggest issue with Holmgren was he seemed to be on a year to year plan, rather than a long term plan. He ended up painting himself into a bit of a corner when Pronger was lost and it got worse(for Hexy) when Timonen ended up being lost.

Before he'd always been able to swing a deal and land a guy. Now that he was in a spot where it became an absolute need, other GM's could bend him over a table.

It got compounded with choices like Lecavalier. But it was also evident in moves like MacDonald.

I'm not trying to shred MacDonald. But they paid a lot to add him and he's not the top pair guy that they needed. But Holmgren decided to utilize assets to moderately improve the team in the short term. They were likely a playoff team, but Holmgren decided that he could expend a second rounder in a deep 2015 draft and it failed to work.
- Jsaquella

I've always hated the idea of giving away draft picks for the rights to negotiate with players. It's not like they got some steal by doing it. They paid market price anyway.

I can see Hagg or Ghost being ready to come up and contribute at some point next year, Morin maybe by 16-17 and Sanheim the following year.
- BiggE

To be honest, Sanheim looks the most ready of any of them.

I have no prob trading a 2nd for a dman if they feel that they are just that one dman away from being a strong cup contender. However adding AMac to last years squad did not make them a contender which is why I don't like the move now or then

Kudos for beating a decimated Jersey team and a weak Carolina club. Both were must wins. However I still think this team misses the playoffs. I just don't think they have the depth up front nor enough top end talent on D to be a playoff team. I hope I'm wrong but that is how I feel.
- BiggE

It's how I feel, too.

I've enjoyed the recent stretch of games and I'm glad they're not willingly throwing in the towel. Mainly because I see a lot of the pieces on this team being the building blocks for the future.

But let's review. The last second tie and loss to Anaheim was impressive and a gutsy effort against a good team. Steve Mason literally stole them 2 points in Los Angeles. They managed to get a point against a decimated Blue Jackets team. They spanked another injury riddled team on Thursday night and dominated a truly bad team today.

It's great that they did this, but there's a point where the sustainability becomes a question and eventually there will be a Chicago or Boston at the other end of the ice, instead of a Carolina or beat up Devils team.

Currently, they're 4 point out of the playoffs, and the only teams ahead of them that they have games in hand on are Montreal and Boston. It's a tall order. They're going to need to get at least 10 of the remaining available 16 points in December to stay alive.

To be honest, Sanheim looks the most ready of any of them.
- PhillySportsGuy

Skill wise yes, don't think he is physically strong enough for the NHL yet though. He could make the club though by 16-17 if he adds some muscle over the next year and change

Skill wise yes, don't think he is physically strong enough for the NHL yet though. He could make the club though by 16-17 if he adds some muscle over the next year and change
- BiggE

I think he may surprise you next year. He's one of the best players in the WHL this year. He's 6'2. He just needs to add muscle.

To be honest, Sanheim looks the most ready of any of them.
- PhillySportsGuy

agreed but we should force him to stagnate/languish for another 2+ years

I've always hated the idea of giving away draft picks for the rights to negotiate with players. It's not like they got some steal by doing it. They paid market price anyway.
- PhillySportsGuy

Agreed. Tampering is illegal, but let's face it, it happens all the time. It takes months to hammer out an extension for your own players who are pending FA's, yet on July 1st, we see guys signing 6 year deals an hour after teams can start negotiations.

Once you trade for a guy, he's kind of got you over a barrel. You just spent an asset to get exclusive rights, but he has an idea of the market for him come July 1st. If you don't match that, it's no skin off his ass to refuse your deal. He's not the one that lost a draft choice.

It's how I feel, too.

I've enjoyed the recent stretch of games and I'm glad they're not willingly throwing in the towel. Mainly because I see a lot of the pieces on this team being the building blocks for the future.

But let's review. The last second tie and loss to Anaheim was impressive and a gutsy effort against a good team. Steve Mason literally stole them 2 points in Los Angeles. They managed to get a point against a decimated Blue Jackets team. They spanked another injury riddled team on Thursday night and dominated a truly bad team today.

It's great that they did this, but there's a point where the sustainability becomes a question and eventually there will be a Chicago or Boston at the other end of the ice, instead of a Carolina or beat up Devils team.

Currently, they're 4 point out of the playoffs, and the only teams ahead of them that they have games in hand on are Montreal and Boston. It's a tall order. They're going to need to get at least 10 of the remaining available 16 points in December to stay alive.
- Jsaquella

Now if they beat Tampa Tuesday, I may start to have some hope!

I have no prob trading a 2nd for a dman if they feel that they are just that one dman away from being a strong cup contender. However adding AMac to last years squad did not make them a contender which is why I don't like the move now or then
- BiggE

The deal wasn't just made for last year, it was made for the future. He's signed to a 6 year deal. A good team needs solid two way puck moving defenseman, even for the 2nd pair. Looking at from the perspective of as if it was a trade deadline rental for a playoff run, is the wrong way to look at it. It was essentially an early free agent acquisition, made for the long term

agreed but we should force him to stagnate/languish for another 2+ years


- Crimsoninja

I honestly think he's a top 6 defenseman on the Flyers right now.

I think he may surprise you next year. He's one of the best players in the WHL this year. He's 6'2. He just needs to add muscle.
- PhillySportsGuy

I truly hope you're right but stepping in as a regular NHL dman at 19 is a tall order

I've always hated the idea of giving away draft picks for the rights to negotiate with players. It's not like they got some steal by doing it. They paid market price anyway.
- PhillySportsGuy

I think there are pros and cons, and I'm not so sure that I like it either. What we don't know is if it saved them any money. Having MacDonald and Streit hit the open market could've of driven up the price.

Agreed. Tampering is illegal, but let's face it, it happens all the time. It takes months to hammer out an extension for your own players who are pending FA's, yet on July 1st, we see guys signing 6 year deals an hour after teams can start negotiations.

Once you trade for a guy, he's kind of got you over a barrel. You just spent an asset to get exclusive rights, but he has an idea of the market for him come July 1st. If you don't match that, it's no skin off his ass to refuse your deal. He's not the one that lost a draft choice.
- Jsaquella

I know. The NBA actually has a legal tampering period before FA begins. I kinda like that.

The length of Briere's signing was to mitigate his cap hit and the deal was frontloaded to entice him to come to Philly as a UFA after the team was coming off the worst year in franchise history. His signing was a huge part of the team's turnaround and his playoff stats alone made him worth every bit of the deal, let alone what he meant as a dressing room guy and team representative in other ways. The last few years of the deal and the buyout at the end --- which were solely due to the cap going down and the amnesty option to eliminate the cap hit -- were a small price to pay when everything is considered
- bmeltzer

Holmgren also picked the best option by far out of the three big FA centers that summer. Drury and Gomez both fell off in a big way after a few seasons.

And if MFL didn't poop the bed in the Finals Briere might have had a Conn Smythe.