Id have to respectfully disagree with you there. On Dallas where he played a lot of second and third line minutes he had 24, 27, and 21 goals before he was traded. Very similar goal scoring numbers to Hall. He didn't rack up the assists but wingers generally dont when compared with centermen. How many other wingers of Crosby or Malkin hit the 40 goal mark?
- mnhockeyguy

But we're comparing a LW to a LW...Hall has a much higher ppg pace than Neal. We're not talking just goals - not to mention all the discipline issues with Neal and the age difference.

And I think you can look at every winger that has ever played with Malkin/Crosby and you'll see a fairly significant uptick in their numbers.

Nobody is trading either the #1 or the #2 pick for Taylor Hall.
- eichiefs9

U never know, Hall still is young and proven regardless of what the picks could be. Not every pick is Crosby-esque, Gretsky-esque, etc, all prospects have the potential.

Should the Hotstove stop piling on the oilers and talk about something else?
- Oilfan19

Umm the Oilers are driving the rumor train right now, so no

Kessel, Phaneuf + 1st for Hall

Clarkson is a donation, for free, cause we're so generous



Thx
- twiztedmike

Deal if you take back 75% of the salary of all of them

The Oilers shouldn't trade any of Hall, Nuge, Eberle, Yak or Schultz. Ride out the rest of this poopty year, see if a Perron or a Purcell or a Petry can yield a halfway decent NHL center or useful draft picks, then draft McDavid, Eichel or Hannifin, find the right coach, keep trying to find a legit goalie and go from there. The wrong move would be to cut bait on any of their 5 core players right at their collective worst for short-term needs.

Trading Hall would remind me of way back in '95 when the Isles traded Pierre Turgeon. It ended up solving nothing and wound up taking another 15 years to land another center of that caliber.

Should the Hotstove stop piling on the oilers and talk about something else?
- Oilfan19

...in the past five seasons the Oilers have only managed 139 wins (139-217-51)... they've only had 2 winng seasons since going to the finals almost a decade ago ('07-'08 and '08-'09) and sport a record of 250-330-73 over that span.

...that would be piling on. They aren't trying to be mean, but the Oilers need shut people up by winning games.

But we're comparing a LW to a LW...Hall has a much higher ppg pace than Neal. We're not talking just goals - not to mention all the discipline issues with Neal and the age difference.

And I think you can look at every winger that has ever played with Malkin/Crosby and you'll see a fairly significant uptick in their numbers.
- DirtyDozen

Except that Neals ppg is larger than Halls. Once again Im not saying Neal is better because he isn't. But if the Oilers want to get rid of him because he's the supposed face of a bad locker room culture they aren't going to get enough to make it a viable trade. They certainly wont get a top center or dman for him.

Bobby Ryan is the better comparison for trade value, but Hall would command more bc he has good term and cap hit left on his contract
- DDM-Coga

Even B. Ryan is a tough comparable - goal scoring is certainly there but again we're taking a player who played a fairly significant amount of minutes with Getzlaf and Perry versus Hall who's played with Eberle and a rotating group of centres.

Looking at ppg numbers and quality of linemates I would put Hall far above either Neal or Ryan.

Based on what??? The vaunted eye test?
- mnhockeyguy

Actually, yes... by watching the two play you can tell which one is better. I'd suggest watching hockey to provide context to your stats. Also, their career ppg isn't close, as per my previous post

Even B. Ryan is a tough comparable - goal scoring is certainly there but again we're taking a player who played a fairly significant amount of minutes with Getzlaf and Perry versus Hall who's played with Eberle and a rotating group of centres.

Looking at ppg numbers and quality of linemates I would put Hall far above either Neal or Ryan.
- DirtyDozen

I think he's referring to the return and not production. If I remember the trade, it was Ryan for Silverberg (young roster player), 2 prospects and a draft pick (maybe 1st?).

Deal if you take back 75% of the salary of all of them
- Oilfan19

that defeats the whole purpose

The answer to this is pretty easy.

Edmonton needs to identify which of the young stars is worth keeping and which one(s) are causing the problems. There is no way that even the current roster should be this bad by now.

It isn't about who gets what in return. It is about getting rid of the players you don't want.

There are problems, find them, (you should know they are already) and trade them. Get what you can.

What about MacT getting low ball offers? When he is seriously willing to make a deal the offers will be what the market will bear for these players and MacT doesn't set that market. Teams aren't going to sit around and let a crappy deal go down just so they can help screw the Oilers.

I think he's referring to the return and not production. If I remember the trade, it was Ryan for Silverberg (young roster player), 2 prospects and a draft pick (maybe 1st?).
- houseofcards74

Yup the return they got for him. Young Top 9 Forward, Good Prospect, and a 1st round pick. So adding another asset to that, Probably a young Dman would start to get close to the value that Hall should demand in a trade.

Bobby Ryan is the better comparison for trade value, but Hall would command more bc he has good term and cap hit left on his contract
- DDM-Coga

Excellent comment, I agree completely. A better comparison for trade value, but Hall is definitely worth more. But while Hall is probably the better player, Bobby Ryan has two first names so clearly he's more awesome.

The Oilers shouldn't trade any of Hall, Nuge, Eberle, Yak or Schultz. Ride out the rest of this poopty year, see if a Perron or a Purcell or a Petry can yield a halfway decent NHL center or useful draft picks, then draft McDavid, Eichel or Hannifin, find the right coach, keep trying to find a legit goalie and go from there. The wrong move would be to cut bait on any of their 5 core players right at their collective worst for short-term needs.

Trading Hall would remind me of way back in '95 when the Isles traded Pierre Turgeon. It ended up solving nothing and wound up taking another 15 years to land another center of that caliber.
- Snowblind

I would trade Schultz for a bag of pucks

I would trade Schultz for a bag of pucks
- Oilfan19

Done........

Lucic (half retained salary), Chara, morrow, spooner and 1st

for

Hall, Petry and Oil 1st



Ludicrous, yes. Would it change the dynamic of both teams. Absolutely

I would trade Schultz for a bag of pucks
- Oilfan19

How about Shultz for Gardiner and we each throw in a bag of pucks.

Pretty much no difference between those players now.

I would trade Schultz for a bag of pucks
- Oilfan19

AHHHHH, let the Kindl for Schultz discussion begin!

Id look at the James Neal trade for a comparison as to what the Oilers could expect to get for Hall(which isn't good enough to make it worth their while) Regardless of what people think about his on ice antics, James Neal is an elite goal scorer. He fetched a good winger and a middling to below average winger. A bad, bad return for a guy that is a sniper like Hall through and through. I think one issue is that wingers are the least difficult position to replace in the NHL. Elite Centers and top dmen are players rarely any team trades. An elite center can make even an average winger very good. Hall in all likelihood will not pull in an established top pairing dman. He probably wont pull in a very good second line center either, at least from a team that has a shot of winning the cup. In which case it's better for the Oilers to just hang on to him. He's still very young and they have decent prospects that could start a turn around in a couple of years.
- mnhockeyguy

Have to say that I disagree with your analysis of the James Neal trade... before coming to Pitt, Nealer was averaging between 20-25 goals and like 45-50 points per season.. he became an elite sniper playing on Geno's wing... Horny on the other hand before coming to the Pens was good for... around 25 goals and 45-50 points as well... to say the Penguins got bad return is pretty inaccurate to me. They got a player that could equal the production of James Neal, won't take as many boneheaded plays, and judging form his style of play, won't disappear in the playoffs (although that has yet to be determined.) And they also acquired a responsible adequate bottom 6 player that helps their depth, which is what hurt them oh so bad in the playoffs last year. Taylor Pyatt, Tanner Glass, Craig Adams, Joe Vitale, Derrek Engelland... I would say Spaling is an upgrade over all of those players (even tho they kind of overpaid him during is RFA status by a mil or so..) sooo... to say that it was a bad return.. I disagree.

Lucic (half retained salary), Chara, morrow, spooner and 1st

for

Hall, Petry and Oil 1st



Ludicrous, yes. Would it change the dynamic of both teams. Absolutely
- dothedougie

No way in hell the Oilers are going to ship out their first when they are in the running for the McDavid sweepstakes.

Excellent comment, I agree completely. A better comparison for trade value, but Hall is definitely worth more. But while Hall is probably the better player, Bobby Ryan has two first names so clearly he's more awesome.
- KarlKarlsson

Florida has all the assets to get Hall.
Bjugstad, Kulikov, Gudbranson, Howden, McFarland, Trocheck, they have really promising young pieces (not going to add Ekblad, Barkov, or Huberdeau)

I think there is a deal to be made with them.

Deal if you take back 75% of the salary of all of them
- Oilfan19

No deal...Market value for Hall right now, is more likely to be Phaneuf, Kadri, Fredrick Gauthier and a 1st rd pick in 2015

Have to say that I disagree with your analysis of the James Neal trade... before coming to Pitt, Nealer was averaging between 20-25 goals and like 45-50 points per season.. he became an elite sniper playing on Geno's wing... Horny on the other hand before coming to the Pens was good for... around 25 goals and 45-50 points as well... to say the Penguins got bad return is pretty inaccurate to me. They got a player that could equal the production of James Neal, won't take as many boneheaded plays, and judging form his style of play, won't disappear in the playoffs (although that has yet to be determined.) And they also acquired a responsible adequate bottom 6 player that helps their depth, which is what hurt them oh so bad in the playoffs last year. Taylor Pyatt, Tanner Glass, Craig Adams, Joe Vitale, Derrek Engelland... I would say Spaling is an upgrade over all of those players (even tho they kind of overpaid him during is RFA status by a mil or so..) sooo... to say that it was a bad return.. I disagree.
- j.boyd919

Yep. Rutherford made a good deal on that Neal trade. James Neal is a top 6 winger, but so is Hornqvist.

Based on what??? The vaunted eye test?
- mnhockeyguy

When did NHL hockey become something that can only be truly understood by looking at spreadsheets?

Anyway the question is moot because we have as exact a comparable as we could possibly get for what Hall would likely yield in a deal, and that is what the Bruins got for Seguin.