Easily a late 1st at the deadline. EDM offered three 2nds for him at the draft.
- hereticpride

Exactly. Deals are out there, or will be, if they want to make any

Out for the year. Gang green develops foot amputation in the summer
- Just5

It's important to think positive during these times. Let's hope for only a few lost toes

Just as good players have bad stretches, bad players can have good ones

Umberger's still bad. Playing better, yes, but still bad, and I have little doubt that what he is will show itself before too long
- AllInForFlyers

Absolutely. Wasn't sold he turned a corner or anything, but definitely noticed he was playing better. It's dipped a bit. Maybe he can remain solid, as he was in California. Not betting on it.

You're right I did finally get it, that's why I'm saying that the Flyers didn't trade for Pronger, they traded 4 first round picks for a first round pick.
- MJL

so we really got hosed in that deal

I tend to agree. I think he's untradable regardless of whether he plays or not. But if he's out, it's not a consistent reminder of how far he's fallen.

At this stage of his career, the 400 goals are nothing more than a plaque on the wall. Not many GM's are going to be looking at what he did in Tampa Bay, they're going to be looking at what he's done recently.

That's why I'm adamant about it being stupid to replace Laughton with him. It's why I bring up the Akeson situation. I don't give a poop about how great Vinny's career had been, or how many accolades he's gotten. He's not that guy any longer.

If Vinny could turn back the clock and be 2004 Vinny, fine. He's not that guy anymore, and hasn't been at least since joining the Flyers. He should not be handed anything.
- Jsaquella

Can a player fall any further back then not playing and in the press box? So how is it not a reminder of how far he's fallen if he's not playing?

Absolutely. Wasn't sold he turned a corner or anything, but definitely noticed he was playing better. It's dipped a bit. Maybe he can remain solid, as he was in California. Not betting on it.
- Jsaquella

I was glad he played better, too. He helped the team a bit. If he can just manage to not be dead weight for the rest of the year, well, that is about all I see in the player that is left

He didn't immediately go to the 4th line when he got back from his injury. He was still on scoring lines and not doing anything. Getting PP time and being utterly useless.

There have been others who didn't perform, either. But those others are more well rounded players. Matt Read is a good PK guy and solid defensive forward, even if he's not scoring. Umberger can be used on the PK and give you a solid defensive game.

But Vinny wasn't playing well, he didn;t seem to be working hard, and worse, he didn't seem to care. Until he got benched.
- Jsaquella

So all of this is just gone?



Who were his scoring line mates on his scoring line this season?

I was glad he played better, too. He helped the team a bit. If he can just manage to not be dead weight for the rest of the year, well, that is about all I see in the player that is left
- AllInForFlyers

Depending on what the summer/trade deadline brings, I'd consider carrying him another year, just to shorten the buyout dead cap space

You're right I did finally get it, that's why I'm saying that the Flyers didn't trade for Pronger, they traded 4 first round picks for a first round pick.
- MJL

I don't feel like reading back. But why is Lupul considered a former first round pick but not Pronger? I don't understand what the argument is about.

Can a player fall any further back then not playing and in the press box? So how is it not a reminder of how far he's fallen if he's not playing?
- MJL

Exactly! Lecavalier had a strong start to this season, he had a strong start to last season. The guy couldn't be more rested and more motivated to go. Nobody has any idea what he can do unless he plays. It's ludicrous to suggest otherwise.

Depending on what the summer/trade deadline brings, I'd consider carrying him another year, just to shorten the buyout dead cap space
- Jsaquella

Your words hurt me

I don't feel like reading back. But why is Lupul considered a former first round pick but not Pronger? I don't understand what the argument is about.
- MBFlyerfan

Semantics. Nothing but semantics

I don't feel like reading back. But why is Lupul considered a former first round pick but not Pronger? I don't understand what the argument is about.
- MBFlyerfan

It's about Richard size I think

Just as good players have bad stretches, bad players can have good ones

Umberger's still bad. Playing better, yes, but still bad, and I have little doubt that what he is will show itself before too long
- AllInForFlyers

That is the ultimate question though. Is Umberger a good player, playing bad, or a bad player, having a decent stretch? I'd still like to see him generating more offensive chances, and getting around the net more.

So all of this is just gone?


Who were his scoring line mates?
- SuperSchennBros

Using that rationale, they should trade for Tom Sestito before they face Tampa again, because he scored 2 goals the last time they beat the Lightning.

No. It's not "all" gone. But he can no longer be expected to deliver that kind of play on a regular basis. Worse, the Flyers have been getting badly outshot and outchanced when he's been on the ice the last two seasons.

That compounds the lack of production and it's why he's been scratched for 7 games.

Exactly! Lecavalier had a strong start to this season, he had a strong start to last season. The guy couldn't be more rested and more motivated to go. Nobody has any idea what he can do unless he plays. It's ludicrous to suggest otherwise.
- SuperSchennBros

They always say to treat every game like your first of the season

They always say to treat every game like your first of the season
- PhillySportsGuy

Impossible

I don't feel like reading back. But why is Lupul considered a former first round pick but not Pronger? I don't understand what the argument is about.
- MBFlyerfan

He stated that the Flyers traded 4 first round picks for Pronger. I said they didn't. He said that Lupul was drafted in the first round. To make a long story short, well then they didn't trade Lupul, Sbisa, and two first round picks for Pronger. They traded 4 first round picks for a first round pick.

Impossible
- SuperSchennBros

Well, they also say it's offsides, so I don't know what to tell ya

Exactly! Lecavalier had a strong start to this season, he had a strong start to last season. The guy couldn't be more rested and more motivated to go. Nobody has any idea what he can do unless he plays. It's ludicrous to suggest otherwise.
- SuperSchennBros

He's played 16 games this season. He's played poorly in 10-12 of those, at least. He played 69 games last year. He was largely ineffective in most of them.

I wouldn't play VLC because of his skating and lack of defensive acumen, but that's just me.

I don't expect him to do anything, but that means I won't be disappointed
- AllInForFlyers

I know I'm on an island with my thought on the Vinny topic, but I want to see him on Giroux's line and here's why: to make it as easy as I possibly can to move him.

Yea, I know he doesn't deserve it but what better way to raise his stock, even if it means it's artificially inflated because of who he's playing with?

Best possible - he remembers how to play, even if it's for a short period of time, and puts up some points. There may be a GM out there (there always seems to be) who will believe Vinny was misused or misunderstood, and thinks his team may fit.

Worst possible - a player is denied a chance to develop? Waffles? He's a nice complimentary player but I don't see him as a full time 1st line skater. BSchenn? Had his chance a couple of times. No one else really is a first line future player on this team.

Looking toward the future? We gotta move that contract.

Exactly! Lecavalier had a strong start to this season, he had a strong start to last season. The guy couldn't be more rested and more motivated to go. Nobody has any idea what he can do unless he plays. It's ludicrous to suggest otherwise.
- SuperSchennBros

Yes, but if he is given this chance, it is put up or shut up. All the talk about how he believes in himself is all well and good, but he has to prove it on the ice.

He stated that the Flyers traded 4 first round picks for Pronger. I said they didn't. He said that Lupul was drafted in the first round. To make a long story short, well then they didn't trade Lupul, Sbisa, and two first round picks for Pronger. They traded 4 first round picks for a first round pick.
- MJL

They traded two picks and two players for a player. I have ruled.

I know I'm on an island with my thought on the Vinny topic, but I want to see him on Giroux's line and here's why: to make it as easy as I possibly can to move him.

Yea, I know he doesn't deserve it but what better way to raise his stock, even if it means it's artificially inflated because of who he's playing with?

Best possible - he remembers how to play, even if it's for a short period of time, and puts up some points. There may be a GM out there (there always seems to be) who will believe Vinny was misused or misunderstood, and thinks his team may fit.

Worst possible - a player is denied a chance to develop? Waffles? He's a nice complimentary player but I don't see him as a full time 1st line skater. BSchenn? Had his chance a couple of times. No one else really is a first line future player on this team.

Looking toward the future? We gotta move that contract.
- 77rams

Only one problem, Lecavalier simply cannot play the left side. If that was to happen, Voracek would have to be moved.

He's played 16 games this season. He's played poorly in 10-12 of those, at least. He played 69 games last year. He was largely ineffective in most of them.
- Jsaquella

He's still got hands

He still can't skate

Is he more willing to play physically and use his size to protect the puck and what speed he has left to get to the net?

If the answer to that is "no," nothing is going to change