Well, they also say it's offsides, so I don't know what to tell ya
- PhillySportsGuy

It's a lot easier to say a lot of things then to physically do them...

They traded two picks and two players for a player. I have ruled.

- MBFlyerfan

Poor Ryan Dingle. The forgotten man

They traded two picks and two players for a player. I have ruled.

- MBFlyerfan

You are correct, and you were needed, what, 12 pages ago

Poor Ryan Dingle. The forgotten man
- Jsaquella

That kid was cooked the moment he was born with that last name.

Yes, but if he is given this chance, it is put up or shut up. All the talk about how he believes in himself is all well and good, but he has to prove it on the ice.
- MJL

No question. However if his line mates are Vandevelde, Rinaldo, Bellmare, Umberger, Raffl (without Giroux) and Laughton (Looking for his scoring touch) I can't expect much from him.

He's played 16 games this season. He's played poorly in 10-12 of those, at least. He played 69 games last year. He was largely ineffective in most of them.
- Jsaquella

Why was he ineffective last season?

He's still got hands

He still can't skate

Is he more willing to play physically and use his size to protect the puck and what speed he has left to get to the net?

If the answer to that is "no," nothing is going to change
- AllInForFlyers

That's the big issue. If you really want to try to get the best out of him, you have two choices. Make him RW on Giroux's line or make him center with Voracek on his RW. Playing with Simmonds and Schenn, he might produce, but that line was not especially good at 5 on 5 last season, and it wasn't stellar at 5 on 5 this season, during it's brief use.

He needs to be with a good playmaker, who can find him for open shots in the slot. That's where he can still be effective.

I don't feel like reading back. But why is Lupul considered a former first round pick but not Pronger? I don't understand what the argument is about.
- MBFlyerfan

Nobody ever does.

It's really all about whether Lupul was considered a first round pick. The 2002 NHL Draft Guide say he was. Others disagree. It's that simple and that silly.

Why was he ineffective last season?
- SuperSchennBros

Because the Flyers were heavily outchanced & outshot when he was on the ice. He's slow, he's not a good two way player, he doesn't drive possession, and needs a playmaker to be effective.

Because the Flyers were heavily outchanced & outshot when he was on the ice. He's slow, he's not a good two way player, he doesn't drive possession, and needs a playmaker to be effective.
- Jsaquella

You definitely ignore nothing when making a point.

I know I'm on an island with my thought on the Vinny topic, but I want to see him on Giroux's line and here's why: to make it as easy as I possibly can to move him.

Yea, I know he doesn't deserve it but what better way to raise his stock, even if it means it's artificially inflated because of who he's playing with?

Best possible - he remembers how to play, even if it's for a short period of time, and puts up some points. There may be a GM out there (there always seems to be) who will believe Vinny was misused or misunderstood, and thinks his team may fit.

Worst possible - a player is denied a chance to develop? Waffles? He's a nice complimentary player but I don't see him as a full time 1st line skater. BSchenn? Had his chance a couple of times. No one else really is a first line future player on this team.

Looking toward the future? We gotta move that contract.
- 77rams

Man, I'm glad to read your opinion about hockey. Doesn't matter whether I agree with it or not. You explained it and I understand where you are coming from

No question. However if his line mates are Vandevelde, Rinaldo, Bellmare, Umberger, Raffl (without Giroux) and Laughton (Looking for his scoring touch) I can't expect much from him.
- SuperSchennBros

Vinny has to find his pride, then swallow it and do what is necessary. Frankly I don't buy that any player at this level cant put their mind to changing their game to fit their circumstances. So for me it comes down to the willingness to accept it and do what needs to be done.


Its all on Vinny. Change/embarrass yourself/retire...those are his three options.

Nobody ever does.

It's really all about whether Lupul was considered a first round pick. The 2002 NHL Draft Guide say he was. Others disagree. It's that simple and that silly.
- 77rams

No one disputes that he was. But if Lupul is considered a first round pick, why not Pronger?

Man, I'm glad to read your opinion about hockey. Doesn't matter whether I agree with it or not. You explained it and I understand where you are coming from
- AllInForFlyers

Are you funnin' me?

Vonny has to find his pride, then swallow it and do what is necessary. Frankly I don't buy that any player at this level cant put their mind to changing their game to fit their circumstances. So for me it comes down to the willingness to accept it and do what needs to be done.


Its all on Vinny. Change/embarrass yourself/retire...those are his three options.
- MBFlyerfan

So each player in the league at any age at any time should be effective no matter what situation they're put in? Limitations is an excuse for no one, every center should be able to adapt and become a two way center?

Nobody ever does.

It's really all about whether Lupul was considered a first round pick. The 2002 NHL Draft Guide say he was. Others disagree. It's that simple and that silly.
- 77rams

Nobody disagrees that Lupul was a former first round draft pick. If we want to use official NHL documents, is it going to say that the Flyers traded 4 first round draft picks for Pronger?

No one disputes that he was. But if Lupul is considered a first round pick, why not Pronger?
- MBFlyerfan

It's a non-issue.

We had fun with it to fill up some time, but it's over.

** I hope**

Vonny has to find his pride, then swallow it and do what is necessary. Frankly I don't buy that any player at this level cant put their mind to changing their game to fit their circumstances. So for me it comes down to the willingness to accept it and do what needs to be done.


Its all on Vinny. Change/embarrass yourself/retire...those are his three options.
- MBFlyerfan

Sad that he didn't take Dave Andreychuk's example to heart

One of the most prolific LWs the league ever saw turned himself into an effective checking center, even though he was slow, for a Cup champion because he realized that is where he was in his career

Vinny hasn't even tried to change his game like an older player with skating issues has to

You definitely ignore nothing when making a point.
- SuperSchennBros

The thing you seem to be ignoring is that Vinny wasn't benched for lack of production or poor play. He was demoted to the 4th line for poor play, but he was benched for lack of effort and seeming indifference.

You're a big heart and effort guy. You're giving Vinny a pass on that.

Are you funnin' me?


- 77rams

Ha! Nope. I come here for posts like those, where people express their opinion and support it

The thing you seem to be ignoring is that Vinny wasn't benched for lack of production or poor play. He was demoted to the 4th line for poor play, but he was benched for lack of effort and seeming indifference.

You're a big heart and effort guy. You're giving Vinny a pass on that.
- Jsaquella

You didn't even bring up the word "injuries". You brought up last season.

So each player in the league at any age at any time should be effective no matter what situation they're put in? Limitations is an excuse for no one, every center should be able to adapt and become a two way center?
- SuperSchennBros

Im saying that when you are that good, it comes down more to willingness to adapt, over skill set.


Some guy aren't willing to be that player because of pride or whatever, while others are willing to do what it takes. There are plenty over the years in both categories.

Maybe you do try to adapt and just don't succeed. But I don't see Vinny even making the effort. He needs to try, or he is done. That is all I am saying.

Sad that he didn't take Dave Andreychuk's example to heart

One of the most prolific LWs the league ever saw turned himself into an effective checking center, even though he was slow, for a Cup champion because he realized that is where he was in his career

Vinny hasn't even tried to change his game like an older player with skating issues has to
- AllInForFlyers

This is an excellent example of what I meant to say.

This is an excellent example of what I meant to say.
- MBFlyerfan

What you said was correct-- players do it all the time, when they choose. The others who don't shouldn't be surprised when they are scratched or waived

You didn't even bring up the word "injuries". You brought up last season.
- SuperSchennBros

If you're that badly injured that you can't even approach being an effective player, you should be sitting out.

Both the player and team have said the injury last year was not a major issue, especially later in the season when he found himself demoted to the 4th line. I guess his foot is the excuse for poor Vinny this year.