Did you miss the Dave Andreychuk post?
- SuperSchennBros

Did you miss the five or six posts after that where it was pointed out that Vinny didn't seem interested in putting forth the effort to adapt? You can't adapt without effort.

Andreychuk was able to adapt because he worked his ass off to be a better two way player. Guys like Pronger and Hatcher had bad nights, but they also worked their asses off so the bad nights would be the exception, rather than the norm.

Vincent Lecavalier has not put forth the effort to adapt. If he doesn't put forth the effort to adapt, he will never have an chance to adapt. If he tries his ass off and can't adapt, then it's a case of a guy that simply no longer has the goods.

But if he can't adapt because he was unwilling to put forth the effort, well, that's a selfish player & poopty teammate.

Did you miss the five or six posts after that where it was pointed out that Vinny didn't seem interested in putting forth the effort to adapt? You can't adapt without effort.

Andreychuk was able to adapt because he worked his ass off to be a better two way player. Guys like Pronger and Hatcher had bad nights, but they also worked their asses off so the bad nights would be the exception, rather than the norm.

Vincent Lecavalier has not put forth the effort to adapt. If he doesn't put forth the effort to adapt, he will never have an chance to adapt. If he tries his ass off and can't adapt, then it's a case of a guy that simply no longer has the goods.

But if he can't adapt because he was unwilling to put forth the effort, well, that's a selfish player & poopty teammate.
- Jsaquella

The words adjust and adapt have come up. I'm not wrong about what they expect. You have no idea what Lecavalier has refused and not refused to do.

The words adjust and adapt have come up. I'm not wrong about what they expect. You have no idea what Lecavalier has refused and not refused to do.
- SuperSchennBros

The word effort has also come up.

Adapting isn't flipping a switch. It implies doing work to change something.

And yes, when the coach calls out Lecavalier for bad effort repeatedly, and then benches him for 7 games and specifically says he's not working hard enough, I have a good idea that he's not working hard enough.

I can also watch the game and see Vinny gliding on the back check more often than not. It's apparent to most other observers.

Did you miss the five or six posts after that where it was pointed out that Vinny didn't seem interested in putting forth the effort to adapt? You can't adapt without effort.

Andreychuk was able to adapt because he worked his ass off to be a better two way player. Guys like Pronger and Hatcher had bad nights, but they also worked their asses off so the bad nights would be the exception, rather than the norm.

Vincent Lecavalier has not put forth the effort to adapt. If he doesn't put forth the effort to adapt, he will never have an chance to adapt. If he tries his ass off and can't adapt, then it's a case of a guy that simply no longer has the goods.

But if he can't adapt because he was unwilling to put forth the effort, well, that's a selfish player & poopty teammate.
- Jsaquella

I question the idea that Andreychuk adapted. He was always a sound two way player, who also played on the PK throughout his career. He was no longer an offensive star, but he always had the two way game. He could still chip in offensively, and became a good leader, and played a role for TB. Expecting Lecavalier to adapt is probably going to lead to disappointment. He certainly needs to make a better effort then he was to get in on the forecheck, and get to the net, so he can get more chances offensively. I don't see him adapting into a checking player that can chip in offense.

The word effort has also come up.

Adapting isn't flipping a switch. It implies doing work to change something.

And yes, when the coach calls out Lecavalier for bad effort repeatedly, and then benches him for 7 games and specifically says he's not working hard enough, I have a good idea that he's not working hard enough.

I can also watch the game and see Vinny gliding on the back check more often than not. It's apparent to most other observers.
- Jsaquella

So do we have Nikolay Zherdev or an Ilya Bryzgalov situation on our hands with Vincent Lecavalier? Vinny is not working hard, he's not adjusting and he's a poopty teammate as you suggest. So do his teammates feel the same?

So do we have Nikolay Zherdev or an Ilya Bryzgalov situation on our hands with Vincent Lecavalier? Vinny is not working hard, he's not adjusting and he's a poopty teammate as you suggest. So do his teammates feel the same?
- SuperSchennBros

In this case, we more likely have a player upset with his role and usage, who came to Philadelphia because of a particular coach that got fired 3 games into the season.

I don't know how his teammates are responding. I know that the coach has benched a well known, highly paid veteran player and repeatedly ripped his effort level in the press and stated that the reason he's getting a shot now is that he "worked hard" and "looked hungry" in practice.

But if you're saying that Lecavalier's effort level has been fine, you are pretty much the only one doing so. The coach is saying the effort hasn't been there, every other poster is saying it. Nobody's publicly defending his effort levels.

At least Vinny isnt Jay Cutler...Jesus H

I love when we bring in the outliers to prove a point.

In statistics, outliers are irrelevant and thrown out. You know...like a Zherdev/Bryz type player/situation/attitude.

Jsaq says by not working hard and being lazy on the ice, Vinny is a bad teammate and selfish. Then, we have SSB jump to the extreme in an attempt to refute that point, like "Oh so you're saying we have another Zherdev?!"

No, that's not what he said.

At least Vinny isnt Jay Cutler...Jesus H
- KINGKENZO

Or John Scott.

In this case, we more likely have a player upset with his role and usage, who came to Philadelphia because of a particular coach that got fired 3 games into the season.

I don't know how his teammates are responding. I know that the coach has benched a well known, highly paid veteran player and repeatedly ripped his effort level in the press and stated that the reason he's getting a shot now is that he "worked hard" and "looked hungry" in practice.

But if you're saying that Lecavalier's effort level has been fine, you are pretty much the only one doing so. The coach is saying the effort hasn't been there, every other poster is saying it. Nobody's publicly defending his effort levels.
- Jsaquella

You suggest that I'm giving Lecavalier a "Free Pass". How is that though? I recognize that he's been playing poorly. I've also recognized that other players have also played poorly but some have gotten more shafted then others. Nick Schultz for example I feel had one of his better nights against Tampa but to say he's been stellar every night on a consistent basis, I'd have to disagree and yet he doesn't sit. Same with Umberger, same with Read, same with Coburn, same with Rinaldo. The same selected few remain the same. Michael Del Zotto, Luke Schenn, Andrew MacDonald, PE Bellmare have all sat. You have no idea of what I thinking, you assume you do.

You suggest that I'm giving Lecavalier a "Free Pass". How is that though? I recognize that he's been playing poorly. I've also recognized that other players have also played poorly but some have gotten more shafted then others. Nick Schultz for example I feel had one of his better nights against Tampa but to say he's been stellar every night on a consistent basis, I'd have to disagree and yet he doesn't sit. Same with Umberger, same with Read, same with Coburn, same with Rinaldo. He same selected few remain the same. Michael Del Zotto, Luke Schenn, Andrew MacDonald, PE Bellmare have all sat.
- SuperSchennBros

Now you're changing the topic.

I agree other guys have been shafted. Vinny hasn't been shafted. Vinny hasn't just played poorly. Vinny has played poorly, because Vinny isn't putting forth a good enough effort on most nights.

Huge difference between that and MacDonald, who sat for poor play.

Or John Scott.


- Giroux_Is_God

Haha

BEARS owe Cutler 31 million over the next two years and fhey jyst benched him for Jimmy Friggin aclaussen hahahahahah

Who?



Exactly

I love when we bring in the outliers to prove a point.

In statistics, outliers are irrelevant and thrown out. You know...like a Zherdev/Bryz type player/situation/attitude.

Jsaq says by not working hard and being lazy on the ice, Vinny is a bad teammate and selfish. Then, we have SSB jump to the extreme in an attempt to refute that point, like "Oh so you're saying we have another Zherdev?!"

No, that's not what he said.
- Giroux_Is_God

He (frank)in' did suggest he was a bad teammate. Read back words, you clown!

He (frank)in' did suggest he was a bad teammate. Read back words, you clown!
- SuperSchennBros

Actually, I suggested that anyone who didn't put forth a good effort was a bad teammate & selfish

The actual quote: "But if he can't adapt because he was unwilling to put forth the effort, well, that's a selfish player & poopty teammate"

That's not suggesting anything. It's flat out saying if a guy doesn't give an effort he's not a good teammate.

Anyhow, I'm done. You're really not worth half the effort this is requiring.

Actually, I suggested that anyone who didn't put forth a good effort was a bad teammate & selfish

The actual quote: "But if he can't adapt because he was unwilling to put forth the effort, well, that's a selfish player & poopty teammate"

That's not suggesting anything. It's flat out saying if a guy doesn't give an effort he's not a good teammate.

Anyhow, I'm done. You're really not worth half the effort this is requiring.
- Jsaquella

Funny that this takes any effort for you at all, Vinny.

Nikolay Zherdev or an Ilya Bryzgalov were two very good examples. Not only was Zherdev not a good teammate in attitude, he was very much unwilling to change his game as you flat out suggest and something you couldn't possibly know. As for Bryzgalov, we've all seen him mope on the bench when he wasn't getting the start and wasn't careful with his words through the media.

As for Bryzgalov, we've all seen him mope on the bench when he wasn't getting the start and wasn't careful with his words through the media.
- SuperSchennBros

I'd like to point out that during the 2012 playoffs, Claude Giroux stepped up big time during his player interviews to mention that Bryz was going to be great for the team, and the best player. Was it true? Absolutely not. But Giroux knew the media was fishing for another goaltending issue, especially in the playoffs, and he single-handedly shut it down.

That's why I get so infuriated when people call him out on lack of leadership. That took some balls.

He (frank)in' did suggest he was a bad teammate. Read back words, you clown!
- SuperSchennBros

Your reading comprehension is poor.

My point was Jsaq wasn't saying we have a Zherdev in VLC. No one has said that. There's no reason to jump down the way of extreme cases. Calling a player selfish does not mean Zherdev needs to be brought up. His case is extreme, and nowhere near what we have in Vinny's situation. Jsaq nor anyone else ever has looked at a disgruntled Vinny and seen shades of Zherdev or Bryz.

Madonna.

Time to start a 2nd Ignore Club
- BiggE

One day I'm gonna start listening to you and my life will be far easier

One day I'm gonna start listening to you and my life will be far easier
- Jsaquella

Easier =/= less sober

Wait...actually never mind

He's intriguing. He's been .500 or above every year as a NHL coach. His teams have generally benefited from fantastic goaltending.

Certainly would consider him if/when they let Berube go
- Jsaquella

I never followed the Senators closely, but I always got the impression he was a pretty good coach, not part of the problem. I remember he punked Therrien and the Habs in the playoffs.

I never followed the Senators closely, but I always got the impression he was a pretty good coach, not part of the problem. I remember he punked Therrien and the Habs in the playoffs.
- BulliesPhan87

Rumors had some of the Ottawa players weren't too happy with him. Bit too much of a hardass.

Who knows.

This (frank)ed up obsession with LeCavalier reeks of not being able to look at the obvious and realise a player is done.

To look past the unicorns and rainbows of what he "used to be", and being a fan of that player.

Its like those (frank)ing condoms, sure they were cool and safe before.. Time to face reality.

You know what? (frank) Vinny. I am still pissed about 2004 anyway. I could care less if he sits. Even if they squeak into the playoffs they don't look like they will make much noise. Let younger guys like Laughton or JPB stay on the ice. Personally I'd like to see them acquire, develop, whatever a big nasty LW with some hands and the willingness to bang along the boards and get to the front of the net for the Giroux line. Let Raffl have Bumberger's spot with Couts and Read. Get an Adam Hall/Jim Dowd type to center the 4th line and ease in the young D over the next few years. If the young D pan out they could be very competitive in 2 to 3 years.

Rumors had some of the Ottawa players weren't too happy with him. Bit too much of a hardass.

Who knows.
- flyer_nutter

I heard they pretty much had him fired. Not sure who that reflects on more, but that's all kind of eye of the beholder-y.

You know what? (frank) Vinny. I am still pissed about 2004 anyway. I could care less if he sits. Even if they squeak into the playoffs they don't look like they will make much noise. Let younger guys like Laughton or JPB stay on the ice. Personally I'd like to see them acquire, develop, whatever a big nasty LW with some hands and the willingness to bang along the boards and get to the front of the net for the Giroux line. Let Raffl have Bumberger's spot with Couts and Read. Get an Adam Hall/Jim Dowd type to center the 4th line and ease in the young D over the next few years. If the young D pan out they could be very competitive in 2 to 3 years.
- Lexington Flyer

Ouch