I love when we bring in the outliers to prove a point.

In statistics, outliers are irrelevant and thrown out. You know...like a Zherdev/Bryz type player/situation/attitude.

Jsaq says by not working hard and being lazy on the ice, Vinny is a bad teammate and selfish. Then, we have SSB jump to the extreme in an attempt to refute that point, like "Oh so you're saying we have another Zherdev?!"

No, that's not what he said.
- Giroux_Is_God

How about calling it both ways? Jsaq bought up the outlier of Tom Sestito scoring two goals into the conversation. And the same can applied to what he has posted, and the comment, no, that's not what he said. I guess you only call out the poster you don't favor.

He is on the team and being paid, if they have any hope of trading him, they have to play him at some point. I don't no anybody who thinks that Lecavalier can be what he "used to be". Have to give him a chance at some point.
- MJL

The best thing to happen would be for Vinny to get on a little scoring streak so when the roster freeze ends they might be able to unload him. You won't get much but maybe something contiditional.

He is on the team and being paid, if they have any hope of trading him, they have to play him at some point. I don't no anybody who thinks that Lecavalier can be what he "used to be". Have to give him a chance at some point.
- MJL

..and honestly, what have they got to lose at this point? Let's not kid ourselves... the cup isn't coming to Philly this season... The biggest win you can get at this point (other than a high lottery pick) is to put Vinny out there, he does decently well, and another team shows interest in taking him.

Yep. VLC and Umberger took him to family night at the movie theater to see a showing of "It's a Wonderful Life". So he was nowhere near the festivities..
- WarriorHockey21

That damned old mean Mr Potter.

(frank) it.

Just play the SOB between G and Jake, and PP1, for a dozen games or so and we can finally answer the question: "can he still play?", once and for all.

If he can't keep up, the case is closed, bench him until he retires.

..and honestly, what have they got to lose at this point? Let's not kid ourselves... the cup isn't coming to Philly this season... The biggest win you can get at this point (other than a high lottery pick) is to put Vinny out there, he does decently well, and another team shows interest in taking him.
- WarriorHockey21

Probably a remote possibility regardless, but if he plays better and shows some signs, it would improve the chances. Did anyone expect Lecavalier to remain scratched for the rest of the season? I'm sure when the morning skate reports come out and the lines are posted, if Laughton is moved off the 2nd line, this place will blow up with calls that Berube should be fired, or that he's an idiot. The game and ice time will tell more.

(frank) it.

Just play the SOB between G and Jake and PP1 for a dozen games or so and we can finally answer the question: "can he still play?", once and for all.

If he can't keep up, the case is closed, bench him until he retires.


- Tomahawk

Let's move Giroux to LW as well, since Vinny can't ply the left side.

Let's move Giroux to LW as well, since Vinny can't ply the left side.
- Jsaquella

That's what I'm saying. (frank) everything. Put Vinny in his dream scenario here. No more excuses.

(frank) it.

Just play the SOB between G and Jake, and PP1, for a dozen games or so and we can finally answer the question: "can he still play?", once and for all.

If he can't keep up, the case is closed, bench him until he retires.


- Tomahawk

I agree, put it to rest. If he can't do anything between those 2 then he officially becomes Zombie #2

That's what I'm saying. (frank) everything. Put Vinny in his dream scenario here. No more excuses.
- Tomahawk

Yep.

..and honestly, what have they got to lose at this point? Let's not kid ourselves... the cup isn't coming to Philly this season... The biggest win you can get at this point (other than a high lottery pick) is to put Vinny out there, he does decently well, and another team shows interest in taking him.
- WarriorHockey21

I am probably in the minority but I feel if at the TDL this team is still where it is that they will make a lot of moves to try and get better for the future. I could see Coburn, Read, L. Schenn, Del Zotto, MacDonald, Grossmann all being moved and possibly Umberger, Vinny and maybe even B. Schenn and Simmonds if they got huge packages back.

Right now the Flyers are 26 in the league and tied with Colorado with 27 pts. Below them are only:
Arizona 26pts
Edmonton 20pts
Carolina 19pts

If the Flyers sit where they are now i sell some pieces, get some picks and prospects back and then try to draft in top three if possible.

..and honestly, what have they got to lose at this point? Let's not kid ourselves... the cup isn't coming to Philly this season... The biggest win you can get at this point (other than a high lottery pick) is to put Vinny out there, he does decently well, and another team shows interest in taking him.
- WarriorHockey21

My issue is simply plugging him back in, on a scoring line role. It means that Scott Laughton, a kid who has come in, played very effectively and worked his tail off gets moved to another position or dropped to another line.

The one thing most commonly complained about by some is that the Flyers don't always play 60 hard minutes. Well, here's a kid who is, and his reward is to be demoted or bumped out of his natural position to get Vinny back in the line up.

The message that sends bugs me more than the actual course of action. You tell guys they have to work hard, and then demote one of the guys who is.

That's what I'm saying. (frank) everything. Put Vinny in his dream scenario here. No more excuses.
- Tomahawk

Maybe he'll score 2 goals in a game so I can use it as an example in response to SSB posting a video of Vinny's hat trick vs the Isles over a year ago, and mjl can mischaraterize it to attack GiG.

It's the circle of life, baby

My issue is simply plugging him back in, on a scoring line role. It means that Scott Laughton, a kid who has come in, played very effectively and worked his tail off gets moved to another position or dropped to another line.

The one thing most commonly complained about by some is that the Flyers don't always play 60 hard minutes. Well, here's a kid who is, and his reward is to be demoted or bumped out of his natural position to get Vinny back in the line up.

The message that sends bugs me more than the actual course of action. You tell guys they have to work hard, and then demote one of the guys who is.
- Jsaquella

And I agree... but I would be straight up honest with both of them. Tell Laughton that it's only temporary, and reassure him that he's doing things right and his hustle is top notch. And tell Vinny straight up, that this is his last chance to prove he's got something left... I look at it as a small window... Laughton will be here for awhile.. his time is coming... but VLC is about done. Give him a few games and see what he's got left.. if nothing, move Laughton back in there and let him continue on.

I think the biggest thing would be reassuring Laughton he didn't do anything wrong, it's temporary, and it's just something they need to do for a few games.

As much as I like Laughton and what he's been doing, I think right now, the biggest thing is to unload VLC and Umberger... or at least one of them. If that means stepping Laughton back for a couple games, so be it... but they need to be clear to him about WHY.

My issue is simply plugging him back in, on a scoring line role. It means that Scott Laughton, a kid who has come in, played very effectively and worked his tail off gets moved to another position or dropped to another line.

The one thing most commonly complained about by some is that the Flyers don't always play 60 hard minutes. Well, here's a kid who is, and his reward is to be demoted or bumped out of his natural position to get Vinny back in the line up.

The message that sends bugs me more than the actual course of action. You tell guys they have to work hard, and then demote one of the guys who is.
- Jsaquella

Move Raffl to a line with Couturier and Read and put Zombie on 4th where ..if he is going to be anywhere it should be there. What do we have to loose?

And I agree... but I would be straight up honest with both of them. Tell Laughton that it's only temporary, and reassure him that he's doing things right and his hustle is top notch. And tell Vinny straight up, that this is his last chance to prove he's got something left... I look at it as a small window... Laughton will be here for awhile.. his time is coming... but VLC is about done. Give him a few games and see what he's got left.. if nothing, move Laughton back in there and let him continue on.

I think the biggest thing would be reassuring Laughton he didn't do anything wrong, it's temporary, and it's just something they need to do for a few games.

As much as I like Laughton and what he's been doing, I think right now, the biggest thing is to unload VLC and Umberger... or at least one of them. If that means stepping Laughton back for a couple games, so be it... but they need to be clear to him about WHY.
- WarriorHockey21

I get that, I just doubt playing Lecavalier is going to increase the possibility to trading him, unless he's playing with Giroux or Voracek.

He was ineffective for most of last season and he wasn't able to be effective or productive this year earlier with Simmonds, which is why I doubt he'll be effective enough to drum up much interest.

In this season that is rapidly becoming a lost cause, I'd rather give the kids time to show what they can do and get experience.

But Nick Cousins is OK?
- Jsaquella

Stortini protects him

Move Raffl to a line with Couturier and Read and put Zombie on 4th where ..if he is going to be anywhere it should be there. What do we have to loose?
- 3flyerkids

In terms of this season, probably nothing.

I just don't think Laughton should have to sit or play 4th line or LW so Lecavalier can be handed a spot in the line up he hasn't earned with his play. That's all.

Simple accountability.

I get that, I just doubt playing Lecavalier is going to increase the possibility to trading him, unless he's playing with Giroux or Voracek.

He was ineffective for most of last season and he wasn't able to be effective or productive this year earlier with Simmonds, which is why I doubt he'll be effective enough to drum up much interest.

In this season that is rapidly becoming a lost cause, I'd rather give the kids time to show what they can do and get experience.
- Jsaquella

If VL and Umberger are both in the top 9, this is going to be a really bad team

If VL and Umberger are both in the top 9, this is going to be a really bad team
- PhillySportsGuy

All aboard the McDavid Express

The good thing is, I'm not apathetic yet. Once I don't care if Vinny replaces Giroux or Laughton or any of the other guys who have been effective and done good things, then I'll start the OB18 method and watch juniors instead of the Flyers

All aboard the McDavid Express

The good thing is, I'm not apathetic yet. Once I don't care if Vinny replaces Giroux or Laughton or any of the other guys who have been effective and done good things, then I'll start the OB method and watch juniors instead of the Flyers
- Jsaquella

I will never stop watching.

Watching Desi Relaford and Alex Arias be everyday players for the Phillies made the World Series win even sweeter.

In terms of this season, probably nothing.

I just don't think Laughton should have to sit or play 4th line or LW so Lecavalier can be handed a spot in the line up he hasn't earned with his play. That's all.

Simple accountability.
- Jsaquella

I agree, keep Laughton where he is. It's just a matter of " put up or shut up Vinny"
Here is your chance... Playing with G and Jake.
Simple accountability is a great point when discussing RJ. He has had more of an opportunity than Vinny. Sit the Hamburglar down, let him eat some popcorn. Raffl can play his PK minutes with ease.

I will never stop watching.

Watching Desi Relaford and Alex Arias be everyday players for the Phillies made the World Series win even sweeter.
- PhillySportsGuy

Yeah, I'm with you. I watched just about every game from the 2006-07 season. Did the same in the lockout season where they missed the playoffs in 2012. I've missed 1 game live this season, and will probably only miss watching them live because of work.

Alex Arias. That is a name that bring up a desire to drink lighter fluid

If VL and Umberger are both in the top 9, this is going to be a really bad team
- PhillySportsGuy

It's going to be a lottery pick team. It just may be Hextall's plan after all , it's the only explanation as to why RJ has not been benched or moved to 4th line

I agree, keep Laughton where he is. It's just a matter of " put up or shut up Vinny"
Here is your chance... Playing with G and Jake.
Simple accountability is a great point when discussing RJ. He has had more of an opportunity than Vinny. Sit the Hamburglar down, let him eat some popcorn. Raffl can play his PK minutes with ease.
- 3flyerkids

I'm actually warming up to doing that. (frank) it, here's two of the best possible linemates in the NHL, if you can't look halfway decent with them, you're shot.

I have less issue with Umberger, because at least he's capable of playing 4th line and isn't automatically going to hurt you in a defensive role.