I am on the fence with Read. He does things well and then there is also the fact i want to upgrade the skill on the wings. If he was moved at the deadline to a playoff team for a nice return i wouldn't be bothered with it. if he is here next year I am ok with it to because I think if you moved Couturier to second line center and gave him more skilled wingers Read could play on a third line with Laughton and Leirer to make a nice shut down line with speed ala my old Devils analagy.

But i would still like to upgrade the wings with more skill and even some nasty. I like Beleksy. He can seem to play up and down the lineup
- J35Bacher

The Flyers need an upgrade in almost every position to be a contender. Thats what I want them to do.....

Ok, so Read is better than Staal, Oshie, Williams, Hartnell? and comparable to Ryan, Doan, Spezza, Duchene and Voracek. Let me go get my head checked......
- GOA88

I don't think he is saying Read is better than them... just that he deserves to be looked at as more than a 4th line call-up player. He was a consistent 20+ goal scorer before this season, so I think he deserves a little more slack than some people are willing to give him. And if people want to say Read sucks, after this one off season, then you can say all those above listed players suck too...

He's never going to be more than what he is.. but what he is, and what he does, is worth what he's paid... imo

I don't think he is saying Read is better than them... just that he deserves to be looked at as more than a 4th line call-up player. He was a consistent 20+ goal scorer before this season, so I think he deserves a little more slack than some people are willing to give him.

He's never going to be more than what he is.. but what he is, and what he does, is worth what he's paid... imo
- WarriorHockey21

I was never saying that he is a 4th line call up. He does get paid fairly. I just feel like some people overvalue his skill. I dont think he is 2nd line skill material. Period

In fact, I think the sooner Couts gets away from Read and Umberger or whoever plays the LW.... and plays with some real skill on his wings, thats when Couts will have a career year.

I see your logic. Thats just the reality of a salary cap world. In the non-cap world. Read never sees the 2nd line unless theres an injury.
- GOA88

So in a world that does not exist, Read doesn't see the top 6? In the world we live in, Read averages 22 goals and 44 points per 82 games and that's top 6 production. Ideally, he'd be a third line winger and would be on the Flyers too, if they had another top 6 LW, but he can be a top 6 player on a regular basis.

Over/under on personal attacks made today??
- funmaster18

1.

youuuuuu diiiiick!

The Flyers need an upgrade in almost every position to be a contender. Thats what I want them to do.....
- GOA88

Yes but in the salary cap world you have to pick and choose where to upgrade. I think Leirer could give you what Read does for cheaper and younger if they did move him at the deadline. If you did that then you have money to upgrade at another spot say 2nd line winger like Beleksy.

How many third line RWs have been multiple time 20 goal scorers?

Last season, with ridiculous usage, Read scored 22 goals. Jake Voracek had 23. So did Matt Duchene, Jason Spezza, Bryan Little, Matt Moulson, Shane Doan & Bobby Ryan.

Guys who had fewer goals than Read include Eric Staal, TJ Oshie, Brad Boyes, Scott Hartnell, Radim Vrbata, Justin Williams, Brendan Gallagher & Nick Foligno.

To me, it's ridiculous to say Read lacks skill. In terms of how he's used, he scores at a more than acceptable rate.
- Jsaquella

I'm not sure why some people seem to forget the past few seasons and have declared a War on Read. Seems short-sighted and ill-advised.

I've snorted smarties before and lemme tell ya if doing a line of smarties is anything like doing a line of coke let's just say I'll never be doing coke. Would not recommend. That poop burned.
- Giroux_Is_God

did you use a $500 monopoly bill to do it?

So in a world that does not exist, Read doesn't see the top 6? In the world we live in, Read averages 22 goals and 44 points per 82 games and that's top 6 production. Ideally, he'd be a third line winger and would be on the Flyers too, if they had another top 6 LW, but he can be a top 6 player on a regular basis.
- NickTheKid87

I would love to keep Read if he is a solely a 3rd line winger. The problem is the Flyers rely on him too much for offense. IMO. Flyers need to obviously upgrade the wings a little so Read can play where his skills best suit him and the team.

Ok, so Read is better than Staal, Oshie, Williams, Hartnell? and comparable to Ryan, Doan, Spezza, Duchene and Voracek. Let me go get my head checked......
- GOA88

Nope. But he has scored at comparable levels to them, despite being used in a primarily defense first role.

Matt Read's career PPG: 0.54
Scott Hartnell's Career PPG: 0.56
TJ Oshie's PPG: 0.68
Justin Williams PPG 0.64
Shane Doan PPG: 0.65

That's actually pretty comparable in terms of sheer points, especially when you factor in most of those guys play much more offensive roles than Read does.

I think the sooner Couts gets away from Read and Umberger or whoever plays the LW.... and plays with some real skill on his wings, thats when Couts will have a career year.
- GOA88

Playing with better players will increase his production? I don't know, sounds fishy to me.

I'm not sure why some people seem to forget the past few seasons and have declared a War on Read. Seems short-sighted and ill-advised.
- NickTheKid87

I havent forgot at all. I dont just look at a players stats and say... "Oh wow... he has some real skill". I look at how he plays. For instance... Cory Conacher looked promising at one point (based on stats) .... now look at him.

I'm not sure why some people seem to forget the past few seasons and have declared a War on Read. Seems short-sighted and ill-advised.
- NickTheKid87

This year his production is down. So is his overall play.

But again, every full season he's scored 20+ goals and in the lockout season, he was on pace for 21 over an 82 game schedule. The guy has been a highly productive checking line player.

I havent forgot at all. I dont just look at a players stats and say... "Oh wow... he has some real skill". I look at how he plays. For instance... Cory Conacher looked promising at one point (based on stats) .... now look at him.
- GOA88

Cory Conacher looked good and had good stats for 35 games.

Matt Read accumulated good stats over three NHL seasons, in a primarily defense-first role.

I havent forgot at all. I dont just look at a players stats and say... "Oh wow... he has some real skill". I look at how he plays. For instance... Cory Conacher looked promising at one point (based on stats) .... now look at him.
- GOA88

He's still small.

Nope. But he has scored at comparable levels to them, despite being used in a primarily defense first role.

Matt Read's career PPG: 0.54
Scott Hartnell's Career PPG: 0.56
TJ Oshie's PPG: 0.68
Justin Williams PPG 0.64
Shane Doan PPG: 0.65

That's actually pretty comparable in terms of sheer points, especially when you factor in most of those guys play much more offensive roles than Read does.
- Jsaquella

I understand that Read has put up respectable numbers but when the game is on the line. The skill of a Oshie will trump Matt Read and could determine a playoff series. I want the cup. I dont want a mediocre Flyers team and I think most of us have gotten a little too comfortable over the last few seasons. This team has to upgrade in many areas if they are going to get anywhere.

Jets trade 6th rounder to Carolina for Dman Jay Harrison...

This year his production is down. So is his overall play.

But again, every full season he's scored 20+ goals and in the lockout season, he was on pace for 21 over an 82 game schedule. The guy has been a highly productive checking line player.
- Jsaquella

And that is what I am trying to say..... Thats what he is. He is one of the best 3rd liners in the league. I'll give him that.

TELL ME MORE

TELL ME MORE
- -davies-

Should I whisper in your ear too, hunny?

Are we dumping on Read today?

Why? I like Read. Let's dump on somebody else.

Or is it just his turn?

Are we dumping on Read today?

Why? I like Read. Let's dump on somebody else.

Or is it just his turn?
- 77rams

I think every player should be evaluated at some point. Right?

These are dark days in Flyerland.

Are we dumping on Read today?

Why? I like Read. Let's dump on somebody else.

Or is it just his turn?
- 77rams

VLC SUX!!!

Jets trade 6th rounder to Carolina for Dman Jay Harrison...
- Jsaquella

They had to do something...their D is in bad shape.

I understand that Read has put up respectable numbers but when the game is on the line. The skill of a Oshie will trump Matt Read and could determine a playoff series. I want the cup. I dont want a mediocre Flyers team and I think most of us have gotten a little too comfortable over the last few seasons. This team has to upgrade in many areas if they are going to get anywhere.
- GOA88

Agreed. But Read's playing third line, shut down minutes. He's not playing 18 minutes a night on a scoring line. Read does have enough skill to score 20+ goals a year, despite being used in a primarily defense first role is something I think you are overlooking.

In terms of things that need upgrading, Matt Read is at the bottom of the list for me. He's been a very good defensive player, an elite level PK guy and a consistently productive player for three straight seasons.

FWIW, since they both joined the Flyers, Read has outscored Wayne Simmonds at even strength