so we have too many centers, the plan (collectively) going forward is to suck bad enough so we can draft mcdavid or eichel (centers) and yet we cant trade a center or two cause "that's dumb"... this (frank)ing place is a gas sometimes

Left just watch Lawson Crouse & Matthew Spencer on the NHL Network tonight
- ob18

Other than hanifin, are there any other stud d-men projected to go high in the draft?

This.

Constantly bashing Giroux for this mess is a simple (and wrong) answer to a complex problem. If it were that simple, Giroux would not be captain right now. SMH
- NickTheKid87

If Giroux was this teams biggest problem they would be a Stanley Cup Champion team!!!

OK, but at this point, what do you have to lose?

put Vinny as the 2nd line center with Jake as a wing to feed him pucks.
Put G with Schenn and Simmonds
Keep the 3rd line.
- nails

They could give that a try, sure. But Lecavalier has played closer to an AHL 2nd line center than a NHL 2nd line center. He can't play defense either so he's a poor option on the 3rd line and he's not an energy guy at all so he really doesn't fit anywhere. He's really not an NHL player right now so there isn't much you can do with him.

So it's that simple.

Are you in the locker room when he is talking to the team? Are you on the bench when he tries to get them going? Sometimes players need to take it upon themselves to change things. Giroux and Voracek have been the two best players. They have been probably our most consistant players. I see that as leadership.

And what hit are you talking about? The Raffl hit? It was clean. There was no reason to go after him. You can't respond to every clean hit especially in a 1-1 game.
- J35Bacher

The Flyers problem is less a lack of heart than it is a lack of size and strength up front and talent throughout the lineup.

Raffl is a solid player, but he is NOT a 1st or 2nd line LW
Umberger, VLC, VDV, and Rinaldo are borderline NHL players at best.
Bellemare is a solid 4th liner
Couturier is an excellent 3rd line center, but lacks the speed to be effective in a scoring role and Read is another strong 3rd line player who is borderline as a 2nd liner. And Laughton, while he has played well, is no more than a 3rd liner at this point.

That leaves the Flyers with basically 4 guys; Giroux, Voracek, Schenn and Simmonds who have any business playing in their top 6.

On D it's worse. Streit and the scratched MDZ are the only 2 Flyers dmen with above average skill and both are suspect defensively. Also MDZ and Coburn are the only 2 with above average speed and Coburn, as expected, is badly struggling in the role of #1 dman, a role he simply lacks the ability to play.

Now when you couple all of that with average coaching, you get what we've had here all season, which is the way Hextall most likely planned it. LOTTERY TEAM.
- BiggE

This Holmgren really set this franchise back. Between the awful trades, bad contracts, and giving away draft picks for aging rentals. He left Hextall with a pile of poop on his lap.

If Giroux was this teams biggest problem they would be a Stanley Cup Champion team!!!
- landros 2

The Flyers problem is less a lack of heart than it is a lack of size and strength up front and talent throughout the lineup.

Raffl is a solid player, but he is NOT a 1st or 2nd line LW
Umberger, VLC, VDV, and Rinaldo are borderline NHL players at best.
Bellemare is a solid 4th liner
Couturier is an excellent 3rd line center, but lacks the speed to be effective in a scoring role and Read is another strong 3rd line player who is borderline as a 2nd liner. And Laughton, while he has played well, is no more than a 3rd liner at this point.

That leaves the Flyers with basically 4 guys; Giroux, Voracek, Schenn and Simmonds who have any business playing in their top 6.

On D it's worse. Streit and the scratched MDZ are the only 2 Flyers dmen with above average skill and both are suspect defensively. Also MDZ and Coburn are the only 2 with above average speed and Coburn, as expected, is badly struggling in the role of #1 dman, a role he simply lacks the ability to play.

Now when you couple all of that with average coaching, you get what we've had here all season, which is the way Hextall most likely planned it. LOTTERY TEAM.
- BiggE

I disagree i think this is a team that needs to shuffle the deck and make a trade fir a playerlike yandle.... id rather get a proven puck moving dman on the right side of 30 then throw my hat in on a chance i end up with the next pat faloon.

so we have too many centers, the plan (collectively) going forward is to suck bad enough so we can draft mcdavid or eichel (centers) and yet we cant trade a center or two cause "that's dumb"... this (frank)ing place is a gas sometimes
- JoeRussomanno

We pretty much have two centers (Giroux and Couturier). Schenn is LW, PEB is an energy guy who can play wing (and is struggling) and Lecavalier is dead.

We pretty much have two centers (Giroux and Couturier). Schenn is LW, PEB is an energy guy who can play wing (and is struggling) and Lecavalier is dead.
- NickTheKid87

not a laughton fan i guess?

so we have too many centers, the plan (collectively) going forward is to suck bad enough so we can draft mcdavid or eichel (centers) and yet we cant trade a center or two cause "that's dumb"... this (frank)ing place is a gas sometimes
- JoeRussomanno

Exactly why I always said I'm in favor of shipping out Coots or Schenn, as well as the obvious VLC... in a trade bringing back good assets. Especially if they are in line to get the top 2 pick, and with Laughton looking really good in there already.

But then again, we aren't getting the top 2 pick, so no need to worry..

Exactly why I always said I'm in favor of shipping out Coots or Schenn, as well as the obvious VLC... in a trade bringing back good assets. Especially if they are in line to get the top 2 pick, and with Laughton looking really good in there already.

But then again, we aren't getting the top 2 pick, so no need to worry..
- WarriorHockey21

why worry about the top 2 picks? didnt we get enough turning it into luke schenn?

If Giroux was this teams biggest problem they would be a Stanley Cup Champion team!!!
- landros 2

I disagree i think this is a team that needs to shuffle the deck and make a trade fir a playerlike yandle.... id rather get a proven puck moving dman on the right side of 30 then throw my hat in on a chance i end up with the next pat faloon.
- JoeRussomanno

Yandle would help to some degree but he won't make this a playoff team. Plus, you will likely open up some new holes with what you'll need to give up to get him.

Brodeur.....

They could give that a try, sure. But Lecavalier has played closer to an AHL 2nd line center than a NHL 2nd line center. He can't play defense either so he's a poor option on the 3rd line and he's not an energy guy at all so he really doesn't fit anywhere. He's really not an NHL player right now so there isn't much you can do with him.
- NickTheKid87

I thought the fourth line was our best line for most of the game and that Vinny started strong then any other player on the roster. In his first shift he set up both of his line mates from behind the net and neither could get a shot off. To say Lecavalier is playing at an AHL level is unfair. He was much improved and won't know what he can do until he plays with legitimate talent. There was rust no doubt but the effect was there. The puck was bouncing on him often and he had trouble controlling it. He'll get his timing back. Wait until he at least gets back into a groove.

We pretty much have two centers (Giroux and Couturier). Schenn is LW, PEB is an energy guy who can play wing (and is struggling) and Lecavalier is dead.
- NickTheKid87

PEB didn't struggle last night. He set up our only goal with hard work behind the goal and a great pass.

I thought the fourth line was our best line for most of the game and that Vinny started strong then any other player on the roster. In his first shift he set up both of his line mates from behind the net and neither could get a shot off. To say Lecavalier is playing at an AHL level is unfair. He was much improved and won't know what he can do until he plays with legitimate talent. There was rust no doubt but the effect was there. The puck was bouncing on him often and he had trouble controlling it. He'll get his timing back. Wait until he at least gets back into a groove.
- SuperSchennBros

Wait a second.... Zac Rinaldo isn't legitimate talent? If he's not, why was he signed to a contract extension?

Can we talk about the two blatant missed calls last night? The interference on Voracek and the Highstick on B.Schenn both later in the third?

The Flyers problem is less a lack of heart than it is a lack of size and strength up front and talent throughout the lineup.

Raffl is a solid player, but he is NOT a 1st or 2nd line LW
Umberger, VLC, VDV, and Rinaldo are borderline NHL players at best.
Bellemare is a solid 4th liner
Couturier is an excellent 3rd line center, but lacks the speed to be effective in a scoring role and Read is another strong 3rd line player who is borderline as a 2nd liner. And Laughton, while he has played well, is no more than a 3rd liner at this point.

That leaves the Flyers with basically 4 guys; Giroux, Voracek, Schenn and Simmonds who have any business playing in their top 6.

On D it's worse. Streit and the scratched MDZ are the only 2 Flyers dmen with above average skill and both are suspect defensively. Also MDZ and Coburn are the only 2 with above average speed and Coburn, as expected, is badly struggling in the role of #1 dman, a role he simply lacks the ability to play.

Now when you couple all of that with average coaching, you get what we've had here all season, which is the way Hextall most likely planned it. LOTTERY TEAM.
- BiggE

Raffl is fine as a support player on the Giroux line. He is a good forechecker, and is strong in puck pursuit, and he plays a solid two way game. He is not part of the problem with this team. There's two different conversations in my opinion. Even if this team was playing at it's full capability, which it isn't in my opinion, they still would not be anything more then a team that is capable of making the playoffs. The biggest reason is that they lack legitimate top defense pairing. And a few other areas of need.
Looking at why this team isn't playing to the level that it should be, is far more mental then anything having to do with Couturier not being fast enough. However, Read and Couturier not playing to the normal level that they have, is a big factor, but that has zero to do with how fast Couturier is. They also obviously miss Timonen on the PK, as that has been a disaster.
Bottom line, looking at talent only, is incomplete analysis.

Flyers basically have to go 4-1-1 or better for the rest of the month to even have a shot at the playoffs. When the trade freeze ends in a week or so, Hextall may well be in sell mode
- Jsaquella

Honestly if it looks like they aren't making the playoffs i rather sell and drop a little lower. I really don't want to see the team fall around 10. I would also like to see them get back into the 2nd round somehow. Who would you move and for what?

Yandle would help to some degree but he won't make this a playoff team. Plus, you will likely open up some new holes with what you'll need to give up to get him.
- BiggE

whether he would make them a playoff a team or not would have to be seen but you wont get a different outcome by doing the samething.... that being said id feel better about filling the holes that deal opens up then sitting on my hands and hoping one of our picks does it in the next 10 years.

They could give that a try, sure. But Lecavalier has played closer to an AHL 2nd line center than a NHL 2nd line center. He can't play defense either so he's a poor option on the 3rd line and he's not an energy guy at all so he really doesn't fit anywhere. He's really not an NHL player right now so there isn't much you can do with him.
- NickTheKid87

so if he has been a 1st line scoring center, his entire life, why does anyone expect different from him?
If you look at vinny's career, his is a scorer that is a minus player, every year. He has never been a quality defensive player. ever.
Benching him wastes cap space.
you can't trade him if he is benched.
buying him out wastes less cap fr a longer period of time.
The only good long term solution is to play him and play him in a position that HE can be successful at.
that means scoring roll with players that help him do that.

I think that idea fits Lava's plan, not Chief's. This is where some of the real problem stems.

Brodeur.....


- PLindbergh31

this is why the word retirement is part of the english language

not a laughton fan i guess?
- JoeRussomanno

Totally forgot about him. It's Friday so my mind is elsewhere