Who's to say that Manuel doesn't play poorly for the first 57 minutes if those games like Orton did.

Orton had 3 turnovers in those games.

There is sort of this revisionist history starting about Manuel where is seems he was incapable of making any throws.
- sbroads24

The Lions game I definitely think he does. As it was reported, he essentially lost the locker room and receivers were getting frustrated at him. The Lions game is a complete disaster if he's in.

It's not that I think Orton was any sort of good in either of those games, but believe it or not, you can get even worse than that, and Manuel was just that.

I don't even have a response for that
- SABRES 89

89... I am throwing options out there.... Cutler and Otrton are not options IMO....Like I posted earlier... Are there not any capable QB's in the CFL worth at least a look? The draft is out, trading for a QB just does not happen and there are no decent UFA's there... So let's check out the CFL... Like I said... Tebow was just thrown out there as an option...

89... You don't think ANY new QB with the Bills will be under immense pressure to perform well? It goes back to the Jim Kelly days dude. How can anyone follow him and not be under pressure? Cutler would be a huge mistake... Might as well bring Tebow in here.... Say what you want about him but everywhere he has played he has won. Who gives a crap about stats? Just win baby......
- rapperray

Unbelievably false. There's a reason he's a college analyst at 27 years old.

All I heard over the holiday was, they talked about Hall and that's it, nothing more as of now. The Oilers want Myers and Psysk ( they have wanted Psysk) My guess is even if Hall is on the block, the Oilers will take the best package they can get but, we would have a shot because of the picks and talent we have.
- SABRES 89

Gotcha, thanks. I'm just not crazy about trading 2 D men for Hall and how our D depth will look moving forward. Appreciate your insights, thanks.

There's a ton of D depth in free agency this year. If you're looking for a bottom 4, there's Paul Martin, Z Michalek, M Staal (won't be available), Eric Brewer, Beauchemin, Boychuk, Franson, Hejda, Methot, Irwin.. I suspect if Myers were to be traded, we'd need one or two..one of the above and one like Benoit.
- TheSabresTaco

They can fix the D problem next year with FA or draft, you can't fix the scoring and they want a young scoring Winger.

89... I am throwing options out there.... Cutler and Otrton are not options IMO....Like I posted earlier... Are there not any capable QB's in the CFL worth at least a look? The draft is out, trading for a QB just does not happen and there are no decent UFA's there... So let's check out the CFL... Like I said... Tebow was just thrown out there as an option...
- rapperray

I'll stay with Orton

How about this? Why not look at the CFL for a QB? There has to be at least 5 QB's there who would improve the Bills situation immediately...
- rapperray

Because the CFL is for guys who aren't even good enough to be backup QBs in the NFL. Once in a great while you'll find a gem in the rough playing lights out in the CFL..but it's no talent pool. It's D3 college football.

The Lions game I definitely think he does. As it was reported, he essentially lost the locker room and receivers were getting frustrated at him. The Lions game is a complete disaster if he's in.
- buffalofan19

If the Lions had a kicker, we lose. If Watkins doesn't make a circus catch, we lose. If we didn't have a great kicker, we lose.

That game had 0 to do with any upgrade at the QB position. He made 1 throw that Manuel wasn't making and that was the one to Goodwin.

In the Vikings game, Orton, and Woods and Hogan fumbling were the reasons we weren't killing them. Orton made up for it by having a great final drive. Who's to say with Manuel those statue like sacks and fumbles by Orton don't happen?

I just can't trade Myers.. There's too much upside and he's so young. I like Hall but I can't trade Myers yet. (I think I'm in the minority on this one).
- Pairo11

I hear ya nads and I understand that. Not too often a player of Hall's talent gets shopped and if you can get him, you do it. Some might not like this but I would offer Ennis, Pysyk + to get Hall. Hall slots in the top 6 for Ennis, win-win.

If the Lions had a kicker, we lose. If Watkins doesn't make a circus catch, we lose. If we didn't have a great kicker, we lose.

That game had 0 to do with any upgrade at the QB position. He made 1 throw that Manuel wasn't making and that was the one to Goodwin.

In the Vikings game, Orton, and Woods and Hogan fumbling were the reasons we weren't killing them. Orton made up for it by having a great final drive. Who's to say with Manuel those statue like sacks and fumbles by Orton don't happen?
- sbroads24

Like I said earlier, it's not that Orton was anything great, Manuel was simply even worse than that.

And, as I said in the Minnesota game, with Orton, they gave away points. With Manuel, there simply wouldn't have been any points to even give away. They wouldn't have even got into Minnesota territory.

That being said, perhaps a year on the bench and an offseason of training and film study changes this, but in Manuel so far has looked clueless more often than not. The only time he looked good was when the rest of the team was firing on all cylinders. When one part even looked remotely average, he crumbled.

They can fix the D problem next year with FA or draft, you can't fix the scoring and they want a young scoring Winger.
- SABRES 89

Hey, I'm of the same opinion here. You get a shot at Hall, you say yes, then yes, then you make your payment and sprint away as fast as you (frank)ing can.

I hear ya nads and I understand that. Not too often a player of Hall's talent gets shopped and if you can get him, you do it. Some might not like this but I would offer Ennis, Pysyk + to get Hall. Hall slots in the top 6 for Ennis, win-win.
- mhp

If it takes Ennis, fine, but he'd be my first priority to keep here.

Like I said earlier, it's not that Orton was anything great, Manuel was simply even worse than that.

And, as I said in the Minnesota game, with Orton, they gave away points. With Manuel, there simply wouldn't have been any points to even give away.
- buffalofan19

This is a complete guess. Our offense did not improve under Orton...at all.

We ended up bottom 3 in most categories.

There wasn't an upgrade. We probably would have still won 9 games.

Manuel could have made a play in the Chiefs game where Orton made zero. We don't know.

I hear ya nads and I understand that. Not too often a player of Hall's talent gets shopped and if you can get him, you do it. Some might not like this but I would offer Ennis, Pysyk + to get Hall. Hall slots in the top 6 for Ennis, win-win.
- mhp

As of now, I think they value Ennis more then Myers. I don't know if I agree with that. Going to be hard to get Hall without Myers IMO, but stranger things have happened.

Hey, I'm of the same opinion here. You get a shot at Hall, you say yes, then yes, then you make your payment and sprint away as fast as you (frank)ing can.
- TheSabresTaco

I agree but remember, Hall get's hurt alot. Great player, just is hurt alot.

I hear ya nads and I understand that. Not too often a player of Hall's talent gets shopped and if you can get him, you do it. Some might not like this but I would offer Ennis, Pysyk + to get Hall. Hall slots in the top 6 for Ennis, win-win.
- mhp

I would trade Ennis, Pysyk + all day long. I like Ennis' talent but I'd be willing to lose him if Hall is in the deal. They would probably want us to include at LEAST a couple high picks too.

I'd say Ennis, Pysyk and a couple first's (depending on which year) would get the conversation started.. You'd have to kick in a goalie or another young D IMO.

That's a heavy price.

I agree but remember, Hall get's hurt alot. Great player, just is hurt alot.
- SABRES 89

Yeah, and I mean I'd take Hall any day over a guy like Skinner, who also has a great amount of skill. But Skin's pretty weak and has a bad concussion history. Not that he's even entered the convo yet. Hall plays lights out all situation hockey and is an amazing talent. He's having a down a year that I could almost guarantee won't ever happen again for at least the next 10 years, so this is the best chance to steal him. Yeah, he gets hurt for playing balls to the wall. But so does Myers, and he doesn't always play balls to the wall. Even with his injury history, I take Hall 7 days a week.

McDonalds sounds good right now.

If it takes Ennis, fine, but he'd be my first priority to keep here.
- TheSabresTaco

I guess moving Ennis is my way of keeping Myers here. I would think if we trade for Hall it will involve Myers or Ennis imo.

This is a complete guess. Our offense did not improve under Orton...at all.

We ended up bottom 3 in most categories.

There wasn't an upgrade. We probably would have still won 9 games.

Manuel could have made a play in the Chiefs game where Orton made zero. We don't know.
- sbroads24

They did move the ball better slightly under Orton, at least in the early stages, than they did with Manuel, and the stats did show it. The main problem is that their red zone offense was atrocious, which does fall on the quarterback.

I'm sorry, but they don't win either of those games under Manuel. It's not even just about lack of ability. It's also about his teammates quitting on him, which they did after the Houston game.

There is a better chance of Girgensons winning the MVP
- sbroads24

That's clearly happening according to the ballots. lolz.

Yeah, and I mean I'd take Hall any day over a guy like Skinner, who also has a great amount of skill. But Skin's pretty weak and has a bad concussion history. Not that he's even entered the convo yet. Hall plays lights out all situation hockey and is an amazing talent. He's having a down a year that I could almost guarantee won't ever happen again for at least the next 10 years, so this is the best chance to steal him. Yeah, he gets hurt for playing balls to the wall. But so does Myers, and he doesn't always play balls to the wall. Even with his injury history, I take Hall 7 days a week.
- TheSabresTaco

I honestly think the Hall speculation is 99.9% media fueled. I highly doubt he's moved anywhere.

Yeah, and I mean I'd take Hall any day over a guy like Skinner, who also has a great amount of skill. But Skin's pretty weak and has a bad concussion history. Not that he's even entered the convo yet. Hall plays lights out all situation hockey and is an amazing talent. He's having a down a year that I could almost guarantee won't ever happen again for at least the next 10 years, so this is the best chance to steal him. Yeah, he gets hurt for playing balls to the wall. But so does Myers, and he doesn't always play balls to the wall. Even with his injury history, I take Hall 7 days a week.
- TheSabresTaco

I agree with you I'd take Hall all day long if I had a chance to trade for him, I just know that it will start with Myers unless Murray can do something " world shattering" GM move.

I honestly think the Hall speculation is 99.9% media fueled. I highly doubt he's moved anywhere.
- buffalofan19

I think I mentioned it's all media about 2 weeks ago

I guess moving Ennis is my way of keeping Myers here. I would think if we trade for Hall it will involve Myers or Ennis imo.
- mhp

Gotta give to get and it sucks that it would have to be Myers but if they want a scoring young Winger, what do you do? The Rangers will sell there souls for Hall and it seems the Bruins as well.