Once the team is basically eliminated, I want to see guys like MDZ play. I have no faith Berube will do so, so I want somebody else calling the shots.

Murray is competent, he's available and he's not a pro who will understand what the job is and could remain an asset for the organization if he's not going to be the full time replacement.

I don't want to hire a new "permanent" guy right now. Wait until spring, see who is out there. The current crop has a few interesting guys in it, but I wouldn't be in a huge rush to hire any of them.
- Jsaquella

i understand murray's value. i'm saying from his perspective, why would he want this, even if the nhl is the top of the mountain. at this stage, he really might just prefer his current situation.

it's clear the team has gaping holes and consistency issues, and that berube is unable to do anything about it, at least thus far. i'm not in favor of dumping him now. wait until the offseason. if murray was elevated, i'd be fine with it though.

I think we're all very aware of your issue(s) with Berube.

A good number of us would even agree. It's about being stymied.


- tangent_man

Bill Cosby doesn't have all the images of the Little Rascals on lockdown?
What a peach of a guy he is!

I'm not a big fan of the proposed 'Murray solution'. Why disrupt what he's best at - developing youth? Not that the Phantoms are this great force in the 'A', but still...
- tangent_man

I'd combine a Berube firing and Murray promotion with a few trades, and bring up some of the kids.

I'm not a big fan of the proposed 'Murray solution'. Why disrupt what he's best at - developing youth? Not that the Phantoms are this great force in the 'A', but still...
- tangent_man

i'd prefer he stay there too. he's good at it, and stability on the farm is a good thing. imo.

Yandle falls in the same category as Byfuglien for me: would be nice to have, but the cost to trade for him doesn't make sense for us
- BulliesPhan87

agreed

not big on yandle at all

Not saying they are, using him as an example of a guy that would be attractive.
- Jsaquella

I like Carlson.

A guy I would be intrigued with would be Bogossian. I know the injury history but he would be a guy that if he stayed healthy has the skills to anchor a first pairing and is young still.

In regards to the coaching thing i don't see Berube being fired during the season unless there is a total meltdown. Maybe in the offseason if they miss the playoffs.

Or if they add a guy who will be here and be a part of getting better.

If they could land a guy like John Carlson, I'd be all for it. He's young enough to be a huge part of the future. If they can get a guy like Yandle for less than the assumed asking price? Fine, he's young enough to be here when they turn it around.
- Jsaquella

but he won't be less than the assumed price most likely and the last thing I want to see them do is move young kids such as Sanheim, hagg, etc for a guy like Yandle

I'd combine a Berube firing and Murray promotion with a few trades, and bring up some of the kids.
- Jsaquella

OK, I'll bite...such as?

Single year D for picks? Which kids?

Maybe this lashing out at practice is his new thing, trying to piss everyone off. Or maybe it's not so new; I don't attend the practices.
- tangent_man

At this point, you'd think a shakeup would be the next step, right? Try something different...but Berube goes to the same well, game after game.

Maybe this lashing out at practice is his new thing, trying to piss everyone off. Or maybe it's not so new; I don't attend the practices.
- tangent_man

Here's what I notice.
They have one really good line, maybe even an elite line.
It is capable of dominating and taking over games.

On 5 v 5, they are the one line capable of generating offense.

Often times they are controlling a cycle and the puck goes back to the blueline where things die. Coburn on the right side has nothing but a weak backhand along the boards. Schultz, Grossmann and the rest (with the exception of Streit) rarely get anything to the net.

It's beyond frustrating. CC in the few games he played seemed to get shots through, and MDZ gives them the option of a guy coming in backdoor.

I know both players have faults defensively, maybe even fatal flaws. But this current blueline is not getting it done either defensively.

Not saying they are, using him as an example of a guy that would be attractive.
- Jsaquella

Here's the problem: the guys who are attractive aren't available thru trade.

The vast majority of trades that occur in the NHL at this point in time are contract related: ie a guy makes too much money for his production or has only a year left until UFA or the team is in cap hell. The hockey trade is all but dead in the NHL.

but he won't be less than the assumed price most likely and the last thing I want to see them do is move young kids such as Sanheim, hagg, etc for a guy like Yandle
- nastyflyergirl

that better not (frank)ing happen. i don't think it will...but there's always a chance.

- Scoob

Nicely done. I was waiting for that one.

Here's the problem: the guys who are attractive aren't available thru trade.

The vast majority of trades that occur in the NHL at this point in time are contract related: ie a guy makes too much money for his production or has only a year left until UFA or the team is in cap hell. The hockey trade is all but dead in the NHL.
- psuhockey

yep. and it (frank)ing blows.

OK, I'll bite...such as?

Single year D for picks? Which kids?
- tangent_man

If they move a couple dmen at the deadline, it wouldn't hurt to bring Alt up and give him some 3rd pair minutes. May as well see what the kid can do for 20 games or so.

Here's what I notice.
They have one really good line, maybe even an elite line.
It is capable of dominating and taking over games.

On 5 v 5, they are the one line capable of generating offense.

Often times they are controlling a cycle and the puck goes back to the blueline where things die. Coburn on the right side has nothing but a weak backhand along the boards. Schultz, Grossmann and the rest (with the exception of Streit) rarely get anything to the net.

It's beyond frustrating. CC in the few games he played seemed to get shots through, and MDZ gives them the option of a guy coming in backdoor.

I know both players have faults defensively, maybe even fatal flaws. But this current blueline is not getting it done either defensively.
- Marc D

agreed. i only saw the first pp of the game the other night and had to leave, but what i saw was a quick zone entry by the forwards, puck back to the blueline and immediate quick pressure by the preds on the points and then it fell apart. the flyers have a good pp, but that point pressure often dissolves the attack. it's frustrating.

Here's what I notice.
They have one really good line, maybe even an elite line.
It is capable of dominating and taking over games.

On 5 v 5, they are the one line capable of generating offense.

Often times they are controlling a cycle and the puck goes back to the blueline where things die. Coburn on the right side has nothing but a weak backhand along the boards. Schultz, Grossmann and the rest (with the exception of Streit) rarely get anything to the net.

It's beyond frustrating. CC in the few games he played seemed to get shots through, and MDZ gives them the option of a guy coming in backdoor.

I know both players have faults defensively, maybe even fatal flaws. But this current blueline is not getting it done either defensively.
- Marc D

Yep, yes, uh-huh, and *nod*.

Yep, yes, uh-huh, and *nod*.
- tangent_man

i understand murray's value. i'm saying from his perspective, why would he want this, even if the nhl is the top of the mountain. at this stage, he really might just prefer his current situation.

it's clear the team has gaping holes and consistency issues, and that berube is unable to do anything about it, at least thus far. i'm not in favor of dumping him now. wait until the offseason. if murray was elevated, i'd be fine with it though.
- hammarby31

He might prefer to stay in Allentown. It's fully possible. But you're focusing on the Murray part. My main point isn't to get Murray in the coaching position. It's to free some of the guys in the Berube doghouse and give them a chance to see if they are indeeed part of the solution moving forward.

If Berube remains as head coach until the end of the season, does MDZ show enough to get re-signed? Are we going to be stuck with another year of some of the deadweight simply because the other guys didn't get a look?

You can't start moving on until you take a first step. Let Berube stay until the end of January. If they're still under .500 and kicking about in the bottom third of the league, what's the point in keeping Berube? Unless he decides to provide an open competition and audition, it's counter productive. He'll keep running the same crew out there and we'll see the same results.

Here's the problem: the guys who are attractive aren't available thru trade.

The vast majority of trades that occur in the NHL at this point in time are contract related: ie a guy makes too much money for his production or has only a year left until UFA or the team is in cap hell. The hockey trade is all but dead in the NHL.
- psuhockey

This

(frank) Bettman and (frank) the salary cap

He might prefer to stay in Allentown. It's fully possible. But you're focusing on the Murray part. My main point isn't to get Murray in the coaching position. It's to free some of the guys in the Berube doghouse and give them a chance to see if they are indeeed part of the solution moving forward.

If Berube remains as head coach until the end of the season, does MDZ show enough to get re-signed? Are we going to be stuck with another year of some of the deadweight simply because the other guys didn't get a look?

You can't start moving on until you take a first step. Let Berube stay until the end of January. If they're still under .500 and kicking about in the bottom third of the league, what's the point in keeping Berube? Unless he decides to provide an open competition and audition, it's counter productive. He'll keep running the same crew out there and we'll see the same results.
- Jsaquella

I still think that if they can Berube before the end of the season, they should make Holmgren coach the rest of the year out. Hell, he built this poop show, let him coach it.

This

(frank) Bettman and (frank) the salary cap
- Marc D

Agreed

Here's the problem: the guys who are attractive aren't available thru trade.

The vast majority of trades that occur in the NHL at this point in time are contract related: ie a guy makes too much money for his production or has only a year left until UFA or the team is in cap hell. The hockey trade is all but dead in the NHL.
- psuhockey

Not saying they are. You're missing my point.

I'm using Carlson as an example of a guy you might consider paying a premium for. Not saying he's available or likely to move.

Yep, yes, uh-huh, and *nod*.
- tangent_man

Rant was almost TL DR

So your reply was perfect !

but he won't be less than the assumed price most likely and the last thing I want to see them do is move young kids such as Sanheim, hagg, etc for a guy like Yandle
- nastyflyergirl

Agreed, which is why I mentioned Carlson.