wow, you really just have no clue. There;s being a homer, then there's you. Terrible
- SpoiledByOil

Well, outside of the empirical data I provided, you really have a great point.

No question if I had a choice of Kessel or Vorachek on my team, I take Kessel. Good for 30+ goals like clockwork. I'd go with the known quantity regardless of what one years' stats say.

Kessel vs. Perry is a harder comparison, and Perry may indeed get the edge. I think Kessel has tremendous pure talent, but Perry is more of a rounded powerhouse and has the heart+drive to compete more consistently. If Kessel could raise his game to his highest level every night, I'd definitely want Kessel between those two--but he does have stretches where he's just flat-out disinterested.
- --Lamp--

Voracek isnt going anywhere bud. Dude is gonna be a force for years to come.

Voracek isnt going anywhere bud. Dude is gonna be a force for years to come.
- GOA88

Totally agree. Guy is awesome, but you still have to give Kessel and his what is it, four straight top ten points finishes the edge, for now.

If only we could've compared them when they each played on 2 great national teams. Too bad Yandle sucked too much to make his.
- rangerdanger94

Wasn't that the nation that took Orpik on it...Not saying keeping Yandle off was a crime but seriously? They were garbage that tournament, how is that an endorsement?

But it's not biased: Who puts up more points more consistantly while playing with easily the worst group of forwards over a five year period ? Answer: Keith Yandle

Who puts up the best possession stats in hockey over the same period while playing on a team that favors defense and is not very good? Same answer.

Fact is, outside of Erik Karlsonn, no one has a bigger impact on games. This isn't my opinion, this is just something that is the truth.

Now, I agree there are other factors at play, which is why I don't claim he's the best of the best....but certainly anyone objectively looking into it must at the very least rethink their ideas about what makes a good defenseman and where Yandle ranks vs the rest of the NHL.

Ryan Suter, Drew Doughty, Duncan Keith, Shea Weber....I think we can all agree those are the four best all-round Dmen in hockey. But after that, it gets extremely subjective and if you wanted to call Yandle #5 you have A TON of data to back up that statement.
- James_Tanner

Fixed.

How do you measure what guys take away in the neutral and defensive zone? Is Corey Crawford as good as his numbers? Or for that matter was Ray Emery two years ago? Or Darling and Raanta this year? Answer: no, not really. Why? Chicago's defense. And great defensive defensemen, most of whom also contribute offensively.

I like Karlsson too. I just think he's more of a one-way player. For my money, I want the guys who shut the other team down, first, defense-man, starts the break and contributes on the other end. Suter is vastly underrated. Great player. I actually think Weber is a bit overrated.

You could also consider that Perry is centred by eventual Hall of Famer Ryan Getzlaf and Kessel spends the majority of his time playing with Tyler Bozak, who it's not even fair to really make fun of.
- James_Tanner

Yeah, that's another reason why it's really hard to compare the two. They are both elite talents but in different ways and with different circumstances. Would I trade Kessel straight up for Perry? Geez, hard to say.. I would have difficulty making my mind up on that one.

There is so much wrong with this.....for one, lots of teams miss the playoffs with elite players (Stamkos, Tavares, kessel etc)

for another, and again, I realize I am writing against a VERY INGRAINED way of thinking, but you just do not need to pair Yandle with a "shutdown" D....he almost never is....His most common partner for 7 years was Morris, and not peak era Morris, but an average to decent player. This year it's Stone. He continues to dominate games.

Look at Brodie / Gio by conventional standards that shouldn't work...just a single example, but very revealing none-the-less.

Frankly, like I said, I don't really like to rank guys, but if there are 30 defenseman better than Yandle, I will eat my damn hat....there aren't even five who impact games to the extent he does.

Top five points.
Top five possession.

So he doesn't kill penalties, big deal.
- James_Tanner

It is hard for me to take you seriously after you said max domi will be 100 point player in nhl. That being said yandle is not a top 5 dman, not even close.

I would put

Victor Hedman
Duncan Keith
Shea Weber
Alex Pietrangelo
Drew Doughty

Are my top five not in order.

but then you still have Pk, Sutter, Karlsson,Giordano, OEL, Shattenkirk, Brodie,Seabrook

Their alot of good dman in the league. Yandle can put up alot of points but most of the points are on the powerplay. He never plays against top lines and cant play penalty kill. He is not complete dman so you cant put in him top 10 never-less top 5.

Sure keep going and doing your hilariously lame happy faces, but Phil Kessel is better than every player you listed, with the possible exception of Ovechkin.
- James_Tanner

hahaha oh man, i'm dying over here.. This poop is hilarious. "this just in Kessel is better than Corey Perry, even though they get similar points, and one actually plays a tough, physical game." hahaha keep these coming man. there are a lot of potential location quotes in here.

Voracek isnt going anywhere bud. Dude is gonna be a force for years to come.
- GOA88

You might be right--he very well could be. I would stick with Kessel only because I know (well, as well as anyone "knows") that he will be a force for the next 7 years we have him signed to.

That is a true statement though...

Better than Kessel:

Perry, Voracek, Hossa, Ovechkin, Benn, Zetterberg, St.Louis, Landeskog.... I could keep going....
- GOA88

Really? Because of this season?

Biiiiiiiased.

Well, outside of the empirical data I provided, you really have a great point.
- James_Tanner

you provided data for 1 player, and in no way compared it to other players over the same stretch, and quality of competition and defensive awareness and peantly killing means nothing to you, which makes your opinion mean nothing to everyone else

Totally agree. Guy is awesome, but you still have to give Kessel and his what is it, four straight top ten points finishes the edge, for now.
- James_Tanner

and one the league leaders in turn overs almost every single year as well, but that poop doesn't matter to you

Fixed.

How do you measure what guys take away in the neutral and defensive zone? Is Corey Crawford as good as his numbers? Or for that matter was Ray Emery two years ago? Or Darling and Raanta this year? Answer: no, not really. Why? Chicago's defense. And great defensive defensemen, most of whom also contribute offensively.

I like Karlsson too. I just think he's more of a one-way player. For my money, I want the guys who shut the other team down, first, defense-man, starts the break and contributes on the other end. Suter is vastly underrated. Great player. I actually think Weber is a bit overrated.
- John Jaeckel

Good points, all. I personally will take the offensive player over the defensive player (unless that defensive player provides puck moving ability) but I hear what you're saying. Which is why one of my first points back on page one was that I don't care to really rank guys. I mean, I could say Karlsson is the best in the league, Stuart might say Hedman and you might say Keith. None of us are really wrong, I mean, even Burke not picking Yandle shows the discrepancy in how people view the games.

My only point for this blog was to suggest Yandle is underrated league wide. I think that was proven as soon as someone suggested he is outside the top 30, which is so ridiculous as to not be worth commenting on, really.

But the bottom line is, top 5, top 10, even a great #2 as Frenchie said (and which I completely disagree with!!!) he is a crazy good player who is more than just offense.

I don't expect any of us to come to a consensus and I think for the most part, all the commeters have been making good points.

Sure keep going and doing your hilariously lame happy faces, but Phil Kessel is better than every player you listed, with the possible exception of Ovechkin.
- James_Tanner

Omg you get me every time. ovechkin is most overrated player ever. He is terrible. He is not a top 5 winger in nhl anymore and might not be top 10.

Perry
Benn
Hall
kane
kessel

would be my top five

and one the league leaders in turn overs almost every single year as well, but that poop doesn't matter to you
- SpoiledByOil

No because while they are a delicious desert, turnovers are notably hard to track with any accuracy. They vary building to building and no one can even really agree what constitutes a turnover in the first place.

Add in the fact that hockey is a game that is so fast and that there is a turnover every two seconds and no it doesnt really matter.

Even if we agree they are problematic but use them as a barometer, you can easily point out that turnovers happen to guys who have the puck, and Yandle has the puck more than just about anyone.

So you're right, that doesn't really matter to me.

you provided data for 1 player, and in no way compared it to other players over the same stretch, and quality of competition and defensive awareness and peantly killing means nothing to you, which makes your opinion mean nothing to everyone else
- SpoiledByOil

Just not true at all. I provided data for one player as compared to the rest of the NHL, and he happens to be 3rd over a five year period.

I noted that he makes 100% of players he plays with better.

I noted that -again vs the rest of the NHL - he's a top point producer.

I pointed out that defensive awareness is overrated because when you have the puck, you don't need to defend. Then I pointed out stats that show Yandle has the puck the most.

I also mentioned that QOC reverts to zero over time, since if you play against good players, you typically play with good players and vice versa.

Also, I don't care if my opinion means anything to anyone - it shouldn't. What should happen is that you are presented with new information and you do what you have to on your own time to find out if that information means anything and if you should maybe consider changing how you think - not a noted strength of most people, but a good idea anyways.

It is hard for me to take you seriously after you said max domi will be 100 point player in nhl. That being said yandle is not a top 5 dman, not even close.

I would put

Victor Hedman
Duncan Keith
Shea Weber
Alex Pietrangelo
Drew Doughty

Are my top five not in order.

but then you still have Pk, Sutter, Karlsson,Giordano, OEL, Shattenkirk, Brodie,Seabrook

Their alot of good dman in the league. Yandle can put up alot of points but most of the points are on the powerplay. He never plays against top lines and cant play penalty kill. He is not complete dman so you cant put in him top 10 never-less top 5.
- hanleyaj

Most of his points come on the Powerplay? How does he score more than all D except for EK at 5v5 then?

Wasn't that the nation that took Orpik on it...Not saying keeping Yandle off was a crime but seriously? They were garbage that tournament, how is that an endorsement?
- AdamFrench

Don't egg him on, he might google "false equivalency" then his head will explode and that will be on you.

That is a true statement though...

Better than Kessel:

Perry, Voracek, Hossa, Ovechkin, Benn, Zetterberg, St.Louis, Landeskog.... I could keep going....
- GOA88

Wow

Dude just stop. Your embarrassing yourself

Really? Because of this season?

Biiiiiiiased.
- BetterCallSaul

36 games make or break players.

Most of his points come on the Powerplay? How does he score more than all D except for EK at 5v5 then?
- James_Tanner

PP must have just expired then, cm'on James

Most of his points come on the Powerplay? How does he score more than all D except for EK at 5v5 then?
- James_Tanner

That is completely wrong he has 14 powerplay points. So he has 9 even strength points.
Tyler meyers has more points on even strength then Yandle. I dont think he will be in the top 100 in even strength points

PP must have just expired then, cm'on James
- SJSharks39

Where have you been all my life? I think I love you. Platonically. Blogger to Poster.

That is completely wrong he has 14 powerplay points. So he has 7 even strength points.
Tyler meyers has more points on even strength then Yandle. I dont think he will in the top 100 even strength players.
- hanleyaj

He is actually in a tie for seventh most 5v5 points by a D this season, but over the last four seasons he's second in the NHL with 96, second only to Karlsson.

He is actually in a tie for seventh most 5v5 points by a D this season, but over the last four seasons he's second in the NHL with 96, second only to Karlsson.
- James_Tanner

I am confused on how you do your math that he is tied for seventh this year. Please explain.

he has 23 points
12 a on powerplay
2 g on powerplay
that makes 14 pp points.
so 23-14=9

that is not in the top 7