Yep, the guy who was playing 20+ minutes a night and playing at a higher level than the rest of the defense before getting hurt and then rushed back to the ice after 1 game and then got buried.

The guy who is the front runner for the Norris is Mark Giordano. He failed with a few teams and had to run off to Europe to find his spot. It's amazing that Del Zotto could go from 20+ minutes a night to not being able to get on the ice so quickly.
- Jsaquella

Playing at a higher level than the rest of this defense is nothing to brag about.

But then again, maybe he's just too good for NHL?

There are many issues with the way the roster is constructed.

The only four guys that have done exactly what the Flyers hoped for areClaude Giroux, Jake Voracek, Nick Schultz and Steve Mason.

Brayden Schenn & Simmonds have been hot and cold. Couturier's play has rebounded, but he's battled consistency at both ends of the ice. Read's been playing far below his past levels.

Guys like Raffl and Bellmare have also provided solid play. VandeVelde has been pretty solid lately.

The defense has been a mess. Guys who are supposed to be providing solid play are making the same basic fundamental errors that you'd expect in kids.

There's some talent here, but the way it's utilized and the way it fits together is questionable. There's definitely a degree of softness, but they also are so bad sometimes at executing a simple outlet pass or fundamental thing like a zone coverage, it kills them.

They are poorly coached and the GM seems to be unwilling to add to this mix this season, and is focused on the future.
- Jsaquella

I'm ok with that as much as I am sick of the constant non cup years and the thought of wasting 28/93 sucks. I think it means Hextall is focused on putting his stamp on this team and carving it the way he wants it. I know there is a lot of season left but I just can't see this team making the playoffs so don't do anything that is deemed short term.

I would love a plyer like Kassian, Beleksy, Wilson.

They have skill and play a heavy game. Our team lacks phsycality. not just the fighting. Just a guy who can deliver a solid it and then make something happen.
- J35Bacher

Those guys can make big hits, but they rarely make things happen

Playing at a higher level than the rest of this defense is nothing to brag about.

But then again, maybe he's just too good for NHL?
- feelingkettle

Not saying that, but if a guy was playing markedly better than the 6 stiffs you're running out now, why was he suddenly buried so far in the doghouse?

It's not as if his play fell off a cliff, and he did sustain an injury. One of the team's biggest issues is moving the puck up ice and out of the zone, and Del Zotto is good at that...yet he continues to sit.

Would he make them immediate contenders? No. Would he make them a better team? Very likely, because his "defensive deficiencies" exist with the so called "good defensive" defensemen. Would playing him give the Flyers a better chance to evaluate him? Absolutely.

The right decision? You mean putting a guy back in who couldn't stick with the last two (now make it three) teams he's been on? And went unsigned before the defensively desperate Flyers picked him up? Guys, if we are looking forward to a guy like that back in the lineup, that's pretty sad.
- feelingkettle

Yup
The team is in a sad state right now
The D can't make a pass to clear the zone and they are Awful in the offensive zone

I know MDZ has a ton of issues but I would prefer to see him playing at this point

In reality would he make the difference ?
Probably not but I would rather watch him right now

I'm ok with that as much as I am sick of the constant non cup years and the thought of wasting 28/93 sucks. I think it means Hextall is focused on putting his stamp on this team and carving it the way he wants it. I know there is a lot of season left but I just can't see this team making the playoffs so don't do anything that is deemed short term.
- nastyflyergirl

I'm more than OK with it. The only way they should make a deal is if it helps out moving forward.

Not saying that, but if a guy was playing markedly better than the 6 stiffs you're running out now, why was he suddenly buried so far in the doghouse?

It's not as if his play fell off a cliff, and he did sustain an injury. One of the team's biggest issues is moving the puck up ice and out of the zone, and Del Zotto is good at that...yet he continues to sit.

Would he make them immediate contenders? No. Would he make them a better team? Yes. Would playing him give the Flyers a better chance to evaluate him? Absolutely.
- Jsaquella

I'm looking at his stats and see a -7 in the last 6 games he played (validity of +/- aside). So he played pretty well to start the season, yippie. I'm sure there is a reason he went unsigned and has fallen out of favor with now three teams that signed him. I know you don't like Berube, but he is not the only one who seems to have a dislike for his play. He is not the future here, so chief probably figures might as well work with what's gonna probably be here next year.

I'm looking at his stats and see a -7 in the last 6 games he played (validity of +/- aside). So he played pretty well to start the season, yippie. I'm sure there is a reason he went unsigned and has fallen out of favor with now three teams that signed him. I know you don't like Berube, but he is not the only one who seems to have a dislike for his play. He is not the future here, so chief probably figures might as well work with what's gonna probably be here next year.
- feelingkettle

Yep, the 24 year old former first rounder has no shot to be the future here, and the 30 year old shot blocker who can't make a pass and blows coverage is.

That's sort of the issue I have. If guys like Grossmann, Schultz and Luke Schenn are the future here, it's going to be a long ass rebuild.

Yep, the 24 year old former first rounder has no shot to be the future here, and the 30 year old shot blocker who can't make a pass and blows coverage is.

That's sort of the issue I have. If guys like Grossmann, Schultz and Luke Schenn are the future here, it's going to be a long ass rebuild.
- Jsaquella

Well then, your beef should be more with Homer and (in the future) Hextall.

Not saying that, but if a guy was playing markedly better than the 6 stiffs you're running out now, why was he suddenly buried so far in the doghouse?

It's not as if his play fell off a cliff, and he did sustain an injury. One of the team's biggest issues is moving the puck up ice and out of the zone, and Del Zotto is good at that...yet he continues to sit.

Would he make them immediate contenders? No. Would he make them a better team? Very likely, because his "defensive deficiencies" exist with the so called "good defensive" defensemen. Would playing him give the Flyers a better chance to evaluate him? Absolutely.
- Jsaquella

Rather see MDZ in the lineup than Grossmann or Schultz. The team is going nowhere and we know exactly what type of player those 2 guys are. Makes much more sense to play guys like MDZ and for that matter L Schenn a lot and see how they do. They have absolutely nothing to lose at this point.

Not saying that, but if a guy was playing markedly better than the 6 stiffs you're running out now, why was he suddenly buried so far in the doghouse?

It's not as if his play fell off a cliff, and he did sustain an injury. One of the team's biggest issues is moving the puck up ice and out of the zone, and Del Zotto is good at that...yet he continues to sit.

Would he make them immediate contenders? No. Would he make them a better team? Very likely, because his "defensive deficiencies" exist with the so called "good defensive" defensemen. Would playing him give the Flyers a better chance to evaluate him? Absolutely.
- Jsaquella

Im hoping their just playing luke and praying he can make himself good enough to get traded for a late rounder, but it's looking like that's not a possibility

Anyone see when he neither stepped up nor backed off on a pinch and a 3 on 1 went back the other way? It was a real easy chip play for the yotes as Luke found no mans land, he wasn't even turned around by the time their forwards were at the red line. 3.6 for that crap he is not a piece moving forward

Well then, your beef should be more with Homer and (in the future) Hextall.
- feelingkettle

If Hextall actually ends up keeping some of the pieces on this defense corps, then yes, I will have a beef.

If Hextall is making the line up decisions, I would have a major beef, because that would preclude the possibility of ever having an exceptional head coach and we'd continue to have the train of Berubes, Barbers, Cashmans and Ramsays from the past.

Im hoping their just playing luke and praying he can make himself good enough to get traded for a late rounder, but it's looking like that's not a possibility

Anyone see when he neither stepped up nor backed off on a pinch and a 3 on 1 went back the other way? It was a real easy chip play for the yotes as Luke found no mans land, he wasn't even turned around by the time their forwards were at the red line. 3.6 for that crap he is not a piece moving forward
- Just5

Yeah, he is what he is, a 3rd pair dman. Sucks

Those guys can make big hits, but they rarely make things happen
- PhillySportsGuy

They can make things happen... just more in that Tom Sestito kind of way.

Rather see MDZ in the lineup than Grossmann or Schultz. The team is going nowhere and we know exactly what type of player those 2 guys are. Makes much more sense to play guys like MDZ and for that matter L Schenn a lot and see how they do. They have absolutely nothing to lose at this point.
- BiggE

I'm not even proclaiming MDZ as a savior. I just think he's better than the guys they're using now, similar to the decision to continue to run out Meszaros or Gill ahead of Gustafsson last season.

No, Gus wasn't a stud, but he was better than those two.

Rather see MDZ in the lineup than Grossmann or Schultz. The team is going nowhere and we know exactly what type of player those 2 guys are. Makes much more sense to play guys like MDZ and for that matter L Schenn a lot and see how they do. They have absolutely nothing to lose at this point.
- BiggE

Schultz and one of grossman/coburn need to go at the deadline minimally.

Those guys are at least playing to a level where they'd get us multiple 2nd rounders bw them

Schultz and one of grossman/coburn need to go at the deadline minimally.

Those guys are at least playing to a level where they'd get us multiple 2nd rounders bw them
- Just5

Agreed. I think Schultz, packaged with one of our 4ths can get us a 2nd and Coburn a late 1st rounder from a contender.

Im hoping their just playing luke and praying he can make himself good enough to get traded for a late rounder, but it's looking like that's not a possibility

Anyone see when he neither stepped up nor backed off on a pinch and a 3 on 1 went back the other way? It was a real easy chip play for the yotes as Luke found no mans land, he wasn't even turned around by the time their forwards were at the red line. 3.6 for that crap he is not a piece moving forward
- Just5

They might be able to move him. His deal isn't that long, he's right handed and he can play solid hockey when paired with a good partner.

I'm not even proclaiming MDZ as a savior. I just think he's better than the guys they're using now, similar to the decision to continue to run out Meszaros or Gill ahead of Gustafsson last season.

No, Gus wasn't a stud, but he was better than those two.
- Jsaquella

Yup. Heck I can even understand last year to some degree as they were in playoff contention, but now, JFC, let the kid play.

so glad i didn't make the 12 hour round trip drive and spend a bunch of $ for that - in fact i didn't even see the game. i was busy playing the best game i have in about 3 months and had a blast doing it.

backup journeyman loss: check
pk gives up a goal: check
road loss to poopty team: check
scoring under 4 goals loss: check
virtually no goal support for mason: check

shocking.

also shocking: umberger scoring 2 goals.

so glad i didn't make the 12 hour round trip drive and spend a bunch of $ for that - in fact i didn't even see the game. i was busy playing the best game i have in about 3 months and had a blast doing it.

backup journeyman loss: check
pk gives up a goal: check
road loss to poopty team: check
scoring under 4 goals loss: check
virtually no goal support for mason: check

shocking.

also shocking: umberger scoring 2 goals.
- hammarby31

The world will be ending shortly.

They might be able to move him. His deal isn't that long, he's right handed and he can play solid hockey when paired with a good partner.
- Jsaquella

You have to figure there are comparable RH SAH dmen out there w/ way less term (and probably less cap-hit) to be had, though. I doubt Luke's 'upside' has much allure left. He's probably a pretty tough sell.

They might be able to move him. His deal isn't that long, he's right handed and he can play solid hockey when paired with a good partner.
- Jsaquella

As far as our dmen go this is what I see

Streit- keep solid veteran
AMac, schenn - immovable contracts
Coburn, Schultz, grossman - trade 2 of the 3 they will bring back value
MDZ - keep after trades and see how he fits

If Hextall actually ends up keeping some of the pieces on this defense corps, then yes, I will have a beef.

If Hextall is making the line up decisions, I would have a major beef, because that would preclude the possibility of ever having an exceptional head coach and we'd continue to have the train of Berubes, Barbers, Cashmans and Ramsays from the past.
- Jsaquella

I would think, however, that most GMs give the coach input on lineup and that coaches, to some extent, likely have to justify lineup changes to the GM.

In other words, I doubt that Berube is making these lineup decisions in a vacuum.

I want to lessen the damage done to the kids on the roster. They're not picking top 3 with Berube, unless the ping pong balls fall right.
- Jsaquella

x2