Much of this is true. Sure schenn and grossman make mistakes. How often are grossman'd positional? When grossman makes his, he's usually in a position to recover. L schenn often makes really bad positional mistake, with no chance to recover
- Just5

Schenn mistakes are more glaring, for sure. But I still don't see Grossmann as much more than an average defender. He works hard, but he's not Rod Langway or Larry Robinson out there

Much of this is true. Sure schenn and grossman make mistakes. How often are grossman'd positional? When grossman makes his, he's usually in a position to recover. L schenn often makes really bad positional mistake, with no chance to recover
- Just5

Luke Schenn's biggest issue has always been not moving his feet, and getting caught flat footed. And some positional issues. His positioning has to be dead on because he does not have the agility or foot speed to recover once he's beaten on a play. I think he's played pretty well the last few weeks, but some holes sprung in his game against Arizona. I want to see Del Zotto back in and given some playing time.

That failed pinch by L Schenn in the last game is deserving of a night in the press box. It was ridiculously awful and what you can say about Grossman is he rarely makes the galling gaffes that Schenn will on a nightly basis.

Schenn is hot garbage IMO, immovable contract there.
- Just5

I'm fine with either of Schenn and Grossmann, just not both of them on the same blueline.

Off to work, happy new year eve hooligans.

Its been a fun ride with you the last few years.

Good day, and good hockey.

I'm fine with either of Schenn and Grossmann, just not both of them on the same blueline.
- johndewar

It's a special treat when Berube uses them at the same time on the PK.

Off to work, happy new year eve hooligans.

Its been a fun ride with you the last few years.

Good day, and good hockey.
- flyer_nutter

Happy New Year, Ya maniac

Schenn mistakes are more glaring, for sure. But I still don't see Grossmann as much more than an average defender. He works hard, but he's not Rod Langway or Larry Robinson out there
- Jsaquella

He's a solid defenseman in coverage in his own end. A team that spend as much time as the Flyers do defending, needs a player that is as reliable as Grossmann is defensively. The catch 22 is that Grossmann's lack of puck moving efficiency also contributes to spending too much time defending. The Flyers in terms of giving up goals at 5 on 5 are pretty solid. The issue is that they spend too much time in their own end, and the Flyers have to play Grossmann a little too much at ES. That's not Grossmann's fault though.

I'm fine with either of Schenn and Grossmann, just not both of them on the same blueline.
- johndewar

Agreed. If the Flyers could add an all situations mobile top defenseman in place of one of them, it would change a hell of a lot. Good luck though.

If Voracek continues playing like this. I would rather trade Giroux. Sorry G!
- GOA88

*head explodes *

It's a special treat when Berube uses them at the same time on the PK.
- Jsaquella

Haha They are ridiculous out there together.

He does. For a guy that's supposedly good defensively, he's really not that good.

He's a warrior, plays through injury, works his ass off, but he's just not all that great. I doubt theres a huge difference with out him in the line up
- Jsaquella

Not sure I see much difference between him and dudes like Murray, Komisarek and Commodore that have been flushed out of the league entirely. Big 'shutdown' defensemen that can't really shut anyone down.

Yup. Boucher, Maclean, Bylsma, and DeBoer all would be ok by me.
- PLindbergh31

I want Tippet. But I don't see that franchise firing anyone.

Not sure I see much difference between him and dudes like Murray, Komisarek and Commodore that have been flushed out of the league entirely. Big 'shutdown' defensemen that can't really shut anyone down.
- Tomahawk

I think he's slightly better than those guys, but not by a ton. He's a bit smarter positionally, than they are.

The issue is, they get hemmed in so easily & so often, the somewhat better positional play gets negated. The old line attributed to Tippett rings true-I'd rather have a guy who can get puck out of his own end & spend 20% of his time defending than a better defender who has to spend 80% of his time in own end.

It's not a huge difference in Schenn or Grossmann, I just think Schenn is a bit better with the puck, and I'd rather see Schenn play. It's not blaming Grossmann, as much as it is recognizing his liabilities

Not sure I see much difference between him and dudes like Murray, Komisarek and Commodore that have been flushed out of the league entirely. Big 'shutdown' defensemen that can't really shut anyone down.
- Tomahawk

Make no mistake they are completely obsolete. Just look at some of the top GA teams, Chicago, Nashville, even Arizona's awesome D core. Their nowhere to be found. They are the next wave of player leaving the NHL right after the enforcer

The issue is, they get hemmed in so easily & so often, the somewhat better positional play gets negated. The old line attributed to Tippett rings true-I'd rather have a guy who can get puck out of his own end & spend 20% of his time defending than a better defender who has to spend 80% of his time in own end.
- Jsaquella

Tippett

As long as this team keeps running Nik out as a top-4 dman, they will continue to stink at ES.

Not sure I see much difference between him and dudes like Murray, Komisarek and Commodore that have been flushed out of the league entirely. Big 'shutdown' defensemen that can't really shut anyone down.
- Tomahawk

If there wasn't any difference, Grossmann would have been flushed out of the League also. Calling him a 'shutdown' defenseman is a misnomer in my opinion. In my view calling him a physical shot blocking defensive defenseman is a more accurate description of Grossmann as a player. Teams still have to defend in this league, that's why there will always be jobs available for players like Grossmann. And why a team like the Pens at one time traded for Murray for a playoff run.

If there wasn't any difference, Grossmann would have been flushed out of the League also. Calling him a 'shutdown' defenseman is a misnomer in my opinion. In my view calling him a physical shot blocking defensive defenseman is a more accurate description of Grossmann as a player. Teams still have to defend in this league, that's why there will always be jobs available for players like Grossmann. And why a team like the Pens at one time traded for Murray for a playoff run.
- MJL

How'd that work out for them

Make no mistake they are completely obsolete. Just look at some of the top GA teams, Chicago, Nashville, even Arizona's awesome D core. Their nowhere to be found. They are the next wave of player leaving the NHL right after the enforcer
- Just5

Never going to happen. There are certainly going to be less jobs available for that kind of player, but they aren't going to be removed all together. Still need some physical defense and shot blocking in the lineup. If you can get that in a all around package with a player like Seabrooke or Weber, all the better. Then you can have more mobility in the 3rd pair. It's a balance that each team has to strike depending on their lineup.

How'd that work out for them
- Just5

Are you saying that they didn't win because of that? The point was that the need was there for that element in the lineup.

Dave Isaac tweets that Matt Read will be on LW with Giroux and Voracek tonight, too
- Jsaquella

Ugh. Hasn't worked before, but maybe they are showcasing

Tippett

As long as this team keeps running Nik out as a top-4 dman, they will continue to stink at ES.


- Tomahawk

I think Tippet is a strong coach in that he seems to be strong in implementing a system and style of play, that gets the most out of a team that lacks front end talent, and gets his players to buy in and execute team wide. I do not however favor his style of play, for a top team. If he can adapt to a stronger forechecking style while keeping strong defensive play behind it, I'd be in favor if a change is made. I do not however advocate a coaching change at this time.

Ideally Grossmann should be playing 3rd pair ES minutes with supplemental PK minutes. The Flyers however can't keep spending 3.5M for 3rd pair defenseman. That's why I advocate resigning Schultz in the right deal.

Ugh. Hasn't worked before, but maybe they are showcasing
- AllInForFlyers

Best place for a forward to escape a season-long slump imo. I wanted them to put the zombie up there a long time ago. Raffl is effective all over the lineup. He gets rocked a ton but his speed and tenacious forecheck are some of the best on the team.

Read Roo Art Ross

Read Giroux Voracek
Raffl Couturier Umberger
Schenn Laughton Simmonds
VandeVelde Bellemare Lecavalier

Ugh. Hasn't worked before, but maybe they are showcasing
- AllInForFlyers

Or just trying to get him going. Neither would be a surprise. The way he's played, he's a liability

Tippett

As long as this team keeps running Nik out as a top-4 dman, they will continue to stink at ES.


- Tomahawk

Tippett's also a coach that seems to be able to adjust and adapt to best fits his personnel. He did well in Dallas with a good team and has worked near miracles in Phoenix