Guy's gonna be 21 this month. Still can't crack the top-5 in scoring on his own team.
- Tomahawk

Yeah, he's never going to be a scorer. But he's got good wheels, he's actually been called a good defensive forward by most guys who observe the WHL closely and he's nowhere near as prone to dumb penalties as Rinaldo was/is.

That said, he's also 2-3 years older than most of the guys he's playing against.

I was the same way. I actually liked Morin better after they got Sanheim and after Ghost developed a bit. I don't think Morin will be the puck mover that some we're hoping, but they now have other guys in the pipeline that can fill that role.
- TheGreat28

All about the mix.

I have faith in Hexy, but man those pieces they are missing are really not easy to fill.

Number one D?

You need to have a top 3 pick and pray it works out, or get very lucky later on in the draft.

Right handed top 4 D?
Seems rarer then hens teeth, especially in Philly.

Skilled LW should be doable.

But fixing the D is really really tough.
- Marc D

Isn't this what every bad team in hockey needs, or can be described as having?

I'm being serious. When you look at every bad team out there, all of them need to fix their D, and most of them have some good pieces and productive players and players with potential. The problem is they don't have enough.

Right now, this team looks as if it will miss the playoffs for the second time in three years.

If you can explain 2012 as youth, then what is the reason now? Still youth?

If 2012 was the defense or goaltending, and the answer is inserting young defensemen, then exactly when are you expecting to return to the playoffs? Because if youth is the reason you didn't make it in 2012 and aren't likely to make it this year, then when does that perpetual cycle end and you begin to evaluate players on what they are actually doing?

Patience is fine -- sometimes, it works and teams win Cups.

And sometimes, you miss the playoffs and miss the playoffs and miss the playoffs, and then you realize that the young players you thought were helping you weren't as good as you needed them to be.

The Flyers need to be wary of a roster that could miss the playoffs for a second time in three years and just might be moving out its fourth coach since the 2009 season.

The majority of the bad deals will be gone in 3 years. Some of the kids will or should be ready to move in by then, or be in their second seasons. Hopefully the cap space freed in trading vets can be used smartly.
- Jsaquella

that sounds better

in the meantime I will watch G and Jake do their thing and get enjoyment from that

Isn't this what every bad team in hockey needs, or can be described as having?

I'm being serious. When you look at every bad team out there, all of them need to fix their D, and most of them have some good pieces and productive players and players with potential. The problem is they don't have enough.

Right now, this team looks as if it will miss the playoffs for the second time in three years.

If you can explain 2012 as youth, then what is the reason now? Still youth?

If 2012 was the defense or goaltending, and the answer is inserting young defensemen, then exactly when are you expecting to return to the playoffs? Because if youth is the reason you didn't make it in 2012 and aren't likely to make it this year, then when does that perpetual cycle end and you begin to evaluate players on what they are actually doing?

Patience is fine -- sometimes, it works and teams win Cups.

And sometimes, you miss the playoffs and miss the playoffs and miss the playoffs, and then you realize that the young players you thought were helping you weren't as good as you needed them to be.

The Flyers need to be wary of a roster that could miss the playoffs for a second time in three years and just might be moving out its fourth coach since the 2009 season.
- AllInForFlyers

There are NHL teams this year, and in past seasons, who have a real good defense, but lack the front end talent to put them over the top. I agree that defense is the bigger need across the league for teams that aren't where they need to be.

I was the same way. I actually liked Morin better after they got Sanheim and after Ghost developed a bit. I don't think Morin will be the puck mover that some we're hoping, but they now have other guys in the pipeline that can fill that role.
- TheGreat28

If Morin can consistently make a good outlet pass and be a solid defensive player that doesn't run around and cause his team to be stuck in it's own end because he can't clear the zone, then he'll be an improvement.

I'm still not sure they have a guy who will end up being a legit number one, but at the very least, if these guys all make the NHL, they won't be paying their 3-6 defensemen $3mm-$5mm a year for a few years.

The Flyers need to be wary of a roster that could miss the playoffs for a second time in three years and just might be moving out its fourth coach since the 2009 season.
- AllInForFlyers

Just gotta avoid the quick fix/silver bullet for once. Flush out the bad players/contracts... replace them with sensible, value-minded additions.

They'll be there eventually... just gotta weather the storm.

I think he had some inconsistent play before the 5 day break, which led to him sitting out a game as a scratch. That's why I prefaced my comment with a timeline. Since he's been back, he's been really solid in my opinion. I thought he had a sub par game last night though, due to a few mistakes.
- MJL

I do remember his first game back against Minnesota...the Lindros/ Leclair game....I ventured down for a couple of games....after the Flyers tied it in the last 5 minutes...A blatant McDonald give a way cost them the game in the last minute...is it me or did he block a boat load of shots last year?this year I just don't see it.

If Morin can consistently make a good outlet pass and be a solid defensive player that doesn't run around and cause his team to be stuck in it's own end because he can't clear the zone, then he'll be an improvement.

I'm still not sure they have a guy who will end up being a legit number one, but at the very least, if these guys all make the NHL, they won't be paying their 3-6 defensemen $3mm-$5mm a year for a few years.
- Jsaquella

He also has a real Nasty streak.....he's a mean kid....that is something sorely missing from their current crop do D.....he has some other intangibles that will translate into the NHL game.

If Morin can consistently make a good outlet pass and be a solid defensive player that doesn't run around and cause his team to be stuck in it's own end because he can't clear the zone, then he'll be an improvement.

I'm still not sure they have a guy who will end up being a legit number one, but at the very least, if these guys all make the NHL, they won't be paying their 3-6 defensemen $3mm-$5mm a year for a few years.
- Jsaquella

He also has a real Nasty streak.....he's a mean kid....that is something sorely missing from their current crop do D.....he has some other intangibles that will translate into the NHL game.

Isn't this what every bad team in hockey needs, or can be described as having?

I'm being serious. When you look at every bad team out there, all of them need to fix their D, and most of them have some good pieces and productive players and players with potential. The problem is they don't have enough.

Right now, this team looks as if it will miss the playoffs for the second time in three years.

If you can explain 2012 as youth, then what is the reason now? Still youth?

If 2012 was the defense or goaltending, and the answer is inserting young defensemen, then exactly when are you expecting to return to the playoffs? Because if youth is the reason you didn't make it in 2012 and aren't likely to make it this year, then when does that perpetual cycle end and you begin to evaluate players on what they are actually doing?

Patience is fine -- sometimes, it works and teams win Cups.

And sometimes, you miss the playoffs and miss the playoffs and miss the playoffs, and then you realize that the young players you thought were helping you weren't as good as you needed them to be.

The Flyers need to be wary of a roster that could miss the playoffs for a second time in three years and just might be moving out its fourth coach since the 2009 season.
- AllInForFlyers

The bigger thing to focus on, rather than how many coaches they have had in 6 years or missing the playoff twice or three times in a three or four year space, is how do they move forward.

They're not going to be a playoff team this year, unless several teams go into an extended dry spell. To me, it's kind of pointless to use the rest of this season as anything other than an evaluation process.

The big question now is what do they do for tomorrow. How do they manage the cap issues to fill the holes. Which pieces do they keep to move forward with. That's the key now, and it should be the focus now.

Isn't this what every bad team in hockey needs, or can be described as having?

I'm being serious. When you look at every bad team out there, all of them need to fix their D, and most of them have some good pieces and productive players and players with potential. The problem is they don't have enough.

Right now, this team looks as if it will miss the playoffs for the second time in three years.

If you can explain 2012 as youth, then what is the reason now? Still youth?

If 2012 was the defense or goaltending, and the answer is inserting young defensemen, then exactly when are you expecting to return to the playoffs? Because if youth is the reason you didn't make it in 2012 and aren't likely to make it this year, then when does that perpetual cycle end and you begin to evaluate players on what they are actually doing?

Patience is fine -- sometimes, it works and teams win Cups.

And sometimes, you miss the playoffs and miss the playoffs and miss the playoffs, and then you realize that the young players you thought were helping you weren't as good as you needed them to be.

The Flyers need to be wary of a roster that could miss the playoffs for a second time in three years and just might be moving out its fourth coach since the 2009 season.
- AllInForFlyers

I would trade any of them to make the team better, but trades that are real hockey trades, that help fill needs for both teams involved are getting rarer and rare because of the cap.

I'm not married to anyone on the team. And if they could get a great D man by trading one of Couts/BSchenn/Laughts then I'd probably be for it, if its the right guy.

But they are more likely to get bad value back in the form of an older defenseman and have to add more then just one of those guys to do it.

I'm not sure what you are proposing though, so maybe my reply is going off on a tangent.

He also has a real Nasty streak.....he's a mean kid....that is something sorely missing from their current crop do D.....he has some other intangibles that will translate into the NHL game.
- landros 2

He definitely has a nasty streak. He's like Pronger in that respect. He's big and mean. He's also a decent skater for his size. He's progressed nicely from his draft season.

It must be because we are talking about Vinny....lol.....Eklund suggests there might actually be a bidding war for his services..

12 goals and 5 assists in Bridgeport this year. He's like the OV of defense.
- Tomahawk

I was POSITIVE they were gonna take him. It was a sure bet, no questions asked. Then they took Morin. Time will tell, but I think he's gonna end up being the steal of the draft.

I'm not married to anyone on the team. And if they could get a great D man by trading one of Couts/BSchenn/Laughts then I'd probably be for it, if its the right guy.
- Marc D

Would you be willing to move G or Jake in a Recchi <-> Rico/LeClair type of move?

It must be because we are talking about Vinny....lol.....Eklund suggests there might actually be a bidding war for his services..
- landros 2

If there's multiple suitors, then it really comes down to which 6th rounder will be higher.

Itust be because we are talking about Vinny....lol.....Eklund suggests there might actually be a bidding war for his services..
- landros 2

He's been productive since his return, and more important, he's working his butt off. He's backchecking and making an obvious effort to not only be in scoring positions and in puck support, but also not getting frustrated by a bad bounce and spend the rest of the shift or game drifting around.

I still doubt he gets moved until after his bonus is paid on July 1st and only if the Flyers eat some of his money. But that's better than a buyout for the Flyers.

I do remember his first game back against Minnesota...the Lindros/ Leclair game....I ventured down for a couple of games....after the Flyers tied it in the last 5 minutes...A blatant McDonald give a way cost them the game in the last minute...is it me or did he block a boat load of shots last year?this year I just don't see it.
- landros 2

No defenseman is going to play mistake free hockey. That turnover led to continued possession for Minnesota, but the play continued on for a while before they scored. A blown back door coverage led to the goal. MacDonald certainly shares blame on the play, but not all of it. MacDonald has been charged with 6 giveaways in 26 games this year. That is an outstanding number for a puck moving defenseman. He is very solid with the puck.

MacDonald's shot blocking totals are only down slightly from last year as a Flyer. As an Islander, he was playing over 25 minutes a game, where as a Flyer, he's averaging in the 20-22 minute range. That's going to cut down on the shot blocking numbers.

I was POSITIVE they were gonna take him. It was a sure bet, no questions asked. Then they took Morin. Time will tell, but I think he's gonna end up being the steal of the draft.
- jmatchett383

I'm going with Mantha, Morrissey or Hunter Shinkaruk.

It must be because we are talking about Vinny....lol.....Eklund suggests there might actually be a bidding war for his services..
- landros 2

Not with that contract. I'd be shocked if there was a bidding war.

Would you be willing to move G or Jake in a Recchi <-> Rico/LeClair type of move?
- Tomahawk

It's a rebuild, but their best chance of turning the roster into a contender.
Jake, Vinny, Schultz/Grossman/L.Schenn to NSH for Josi, Fiala, and a 1st.

If there's multiple suitors, then it really comes down to which 6th rounder will be higher.
- jmatchett383

Or who demands the Flyers eat less cash

Would you be willing to move G or Jake in a Recchi <-> Rico/LeClair type of move?
- Tomahawk

That's intriguing. It's bold and daring, too

I would trade any of them to make the team better, but trades that are real hockey trades, that help fill needs for both teams involved are getting rarer and rare because of the cap.

I'm not married to anyone on the team. And if they could get a great D man by trading one of Couts/BSchenn/Laughts then I'd probably be for it, if its the right guy.

But they are more likely to get bad value back in the form of an older defenseman and have to add more then just one of those guys to do it.

I'm not sure what you are proposing though, so maybe my reply is going off on a tangent.
- Marc D

That's what I'm proposing/saying: Let's not get so caught up with what a player might do that we lose the context of what they've done or are doing.

I understand what JSaq is saying, about focusing on tomorrow, not yesterday. I believe that.

But at the same time, you can't just forget yesterday. You have to understand failure in order to learn from it and grow.

How many coaches you have gone through does matter, for example. What are your processes for hiring? Are your players coachable and adaptable, or could some only succeed with certain coaches and not others? Are they being hindered by too many different systems? What is your organizational philosophy?

So on and so forth.

When I look at the Flyers right now, I see the obvious potential. I also see the various failures.

What I don't know is how well the potential meshes with the failures, and ultimately, if the players who have contributed to some of the failures have or are capable of learning enough from those failures to become contenders and champions.

Time will tell, but sometimes, players don't make the leap, sometimes potential goes begging. I'm just saying just because a guy is here and has potential doesn't mean he is an answer.