Here's the problem: Short of a blockbuster trade, the Flyers won't get picks or prospects of any significance for the names people keep putting out there as trade targets. They won't get current NHL roster players of any significance back, either. Meanwhile, the FA markets have becoming increasingly mediocre -- yet overpriced -- because of teams signing guys to pre-emptive extensions.

I am all for acquiring draft picks in volume and hanging onto your own picks when possible but I also know the odds of a pick panning out into an impact NHL player are not great and even when you do hit a home run, the player is almost always going to need multiple years from his draft year to start making that impact. Hell, even most first-round picks need several years.

I think the best course of action here is patience, which includes not holding a fire sale strictly for the sake of change. Do the remake slowly as moves make sense.
- bmeltzer

I don't think its possible to do a "fire sale" as in, trading every defenseman, before the TDL.

However, I would be shopping all of the defensemen on the roster, and would definitely agree to any deal where the team got value. Right now they have 8 NHL defensemen under contract. There's no reason not to try and get additional picks in the 2015 draft for them, even if it's just 2nd & 3rd rounders.

The Flyers need to face up to the likelihood that they're 2-3 years away from being a contender, if everything breaks right. By that time, most of the current defense will be gone or signed to new deals. IMO, this group of defensemen is transitory anyhow.

Streit is a good offensive defenseman, but he's 37. Coburn is a good defenseman, who generally plays better as a top defenseman's sidekick. The rest of the group are 4-7 guys, who are limited and struggle when asked to play bigger roles.

That's not their fault, it just is what they are. The free agent market, as mediocre as it is, can bring in guys who are similar to what they have on short term deals. Not really sure there's much difference in keeping Grossmann or Schultz when there's still no real shot at adding a legit number one guy.

How much worse off are the Flyers if the traded Grossmann & Schultz for 3rd rounders and then signed Bryan Allen & Matt Bartkowski to 2 year deals as placeholders? I realize it doesn't really make them better, but neither does holding onto the current group.

At least, if they add picks, they won't be playing Angry Birds & Candy Crush for 24 hours between the 6th overall pick and their next pick all the way down at 75th

Here's the problem: Short of a blockbuster trade, the Flyers won't get picks or prospects of any significance for the names people keep putting out there as trade targets. They won't get current NHL roster players of any significance back, either. Meanwhile, the FA markets have becoming increasingly mediocre -- yet overpriced -- because of teams signing guys to pre-emptive extensions.

I am all for acquiring draft picks in volume and hanging onto your own picks when possible but I also know the odds of a pick panning out into an impact NHL player are not great and even when you do hit a home run, the player is almost always going to need multiple years from his draft year to start making that impact. Hell, even most first-round picks need several years.

I think the best course of action here is patience, which includes not holding a fire sale strictly for the sake of change. Do the remake slowly as moves make sense.
- bmeltzer

I agree with most of what you said but there is a big risk of a slow rebuild. If you slowly remake the roster by a piece or two a year, you run the risk of the current good players on the Flyers declining thru age and or injury. Giroux is 26, Simmonds is 26, Voracek is 25. So the Flyers add in a rookie defense each season and they go thru the normal 2-3 year learning process at the NHL level, by the time the defense is remade those players will be in their 30's or close to it. Now the Flyers will have to find a new 1st line center and new top line winger to compete against the teams with younger forwards in their prime years. So you will have a situation much like Thornton. He couldn't get past Datsyuk while he was in his prime and after 30, has been outplayed by younger centers in their prime like Kesler, Toews, and Kopitar. I know that is rather simplistic as it is a team game and teams win but you get the idea.

Who's fault is that? The coach has to take some responsibility. Isn't it part of his job to get the best out of his players?
A new coach will be needed...at least to start next year.
P. DeBoer!
- 3flyerkids

It looks like they tuned Berube out for sure. Problem is.... This group for the most part has now tuned out the last 2 coaches in a very short span. To me, a lot of these players need to go.

I agree with most of what you said but there is a big risk of a slow rebuild. If you slowly remake the roster by a piece or two a year, you run the risk of the current good players on the Flyers declining thru age and or injury. Giroux is 26, Simmonds is 26, Voracek is 25. So the Flyers add in a rookie defense each season and they go thru the normal 2-3 year learning process at the NHL level, by the time the defense is remade those players will be in their 30's or close to it. Now the Flyers will have to find a new 1st line center and new top line winger to compete against the teams with younger forwards in their prime years. So you will have a situation much like Thornton. He couldn't get past Datsyuk while he was in his prime and after 30, has been outplayed by younger centers in their prime like Kesler, Toews, and Kopitar. I know that is rather simplistic as it is a team game and teams win but you get the idea.
- psuhockey

Thats why we need McDavid

I don't think its possible to do a "fire sale" as in, trading every defenseman, before the TDL.

However, I would be shopping all of the defensemen on the roster, and would definitely agree to any deal where the team got value. Right now they have 8 NHL defensemen under contract. There's no reason not to try and get additional picks in the 2015 draft for them, even if it's just 2nd & 3rd rounders.

The Flyers need to face up to the likelihood that they're 2-3 years away from being a contender, if everything breaks right. By that time, most of the current defense will be gone or signed to new deals. IMO, this group of defensemen is transitory anyhow.

Streit is a good offensive defenseman, but he's 37. Coburn is a good defenseman, who generally plays better as a top defenseman's sidekick. The rest of the group are 4-7 guys, who are limited and struggle when asked to play bigger roles.

That's not their fault, it just is what they are. The free agent market, as mediocre as it is, can bring in guys who are similar to what they have on short term deals. Not really sure there's much difference in keeping Grossmann or Schultz when there's still no real shot at adding a legit number one guy.

How much worse off are the Flyers if the traded Grossmann & Schultz for 3rd rounders and then signed Bryan Allen & Matt Bartkowski to 2 year deals as placeholders? I realize it doesn't really make them better, but neither does holding onto the current group.

At least, if they add picks, they won't be playing Angry Birds & Candy Crush for 24 hours between the 6th overall pick and their next pick all the way down at 75th
- Jsaquella

we talking bout itinerary?!... not a game, not a game, not a game!

Agree 100% Bill. A fire sale would be a big mistake. Don't just make moves, make smart moves.
- MJL

would you go mske snother capgeek already? hockey fandom needs you

I agree with most of what you said but there is a big risk of a slow rebuild. If you slowly remake the roster by a piece or two a year, you run the risk of the current good players on the Flyers declining thru age and or injury. Giroux is 26, Simmonds is 26, Voracek is 25. So the Flyers add in a rookie defense each season and they go thru the normal 2-3 year learning process at the NHL level, by the time the defense is remade those players will be in their 30's or close to it. Now the Flyers will have to find a new 1st line center and new top line winger to compete against the teams with younger forwards in their prime years. So you will have a situation much like Thornton. He couldn't get past Datsyuk while he was in his prime and after 30, has been outplayed by younger centers in their prime like Kesler, Toews, and Kopitar. I know that is rather simplistic as it is a team game and teams win but you get the idea.
- psuhockey

The rule is in place so teams can't take advantage of the players but the results can obviously be different. The reason for the rule is to benefit the players but in this case, adhering to it would harm them. The penalty must have been minimal or else the players could've just flew alone to Nashville like the players-only informal skates.

Related: someone compared the Flyers low-key rule-breaking to the Kings getting fined for letting Voynov skate basically saying that the NHL was favoring the Flyers by not making a big deal about traveling on the 26th. This person believed flying to the opponent's city a few hours early was equivalent to letting a player violate his suspension. Some people...

Who's fault is that? The coach has to take some responsibility. Isn't it part of his job to get the best out of his players?
A new coach will be needed...at least to start next year.
P. DeBoer!
- 3flyerkids

Of course a coach shares in the culpability for how this team is playing. Might even take the fall for it.

Thanks Bill. This generates an idea for Chief, and a practice day; a bag skate day. Maybe that would wake the team up. It's worth a shot, but knowing the players, they would probably quit, or worse. No guts, no glory. I guess no glory is what it's about. It will be interesting to see who shows up for the preseason next year. I hope that some of the kids will fill some shoes. Keep up the good work Scotty L. I look forward to seeing a full season of your play.

In regards to the CBA violation, you can apparently get around it if the players have an "optional" event on the break (the "optional" Ducks practice that was set-up by Ryan Getzlaf). So, is it possible the players could get together for an "optional" flight arranged by Claude Giroux, and just happen to invite the coaching staff along?

The rule is in place so teams can't take advantage of the players but the results can obviously be different. The reason for the rule is to benefit the players but in this case, adhering to it would harm them. The penalty must have been minimal or else the players could've just flew alone to Nashville like the players-only informal skates.

Related: someone compared the Flyers low-key rule-breaking to the Kings getting fined for letting Voynov skate basically saying that the NHL was favoring the Flyers by not making a big deal about traveling on the 26th. This person believed flying to the opponent's city a few hours early was equivalent to letting a player violate his suspension. Some people...
- NickTheKid87

That was Brooks. What an asshat

In regards to the CBA violation, you can apparently get around it if the players have an "optional" event on the break (the "optional" Ducks practice that was set-up by Ryan Getzlaf). So, is it possible the players could get together for an "optional" flight arranged by Claude Giroux, and just happen to invite the coaching staff along?
- jmatchett383

Every player just happened to buy a plane ticket for the same flight! What a coinkydence.


It appears that the Flyers didn't care about getting around the rule though.

Every player just happened to buy a plane ticket for the same flight! What a coinkydence.
- MJL

Well, no, like I said, it would be a player-organized (as opposed to a team-organized) flight. Not just a crazy coincidence.

Much to do about nothing. Snider bucks well spent.

That extra rest they got in Nashville was paramount. They went out and played a strong game and got 2 points!

In regards to the CBA violation, you can apparently get around it if the players have an "optional" event on the break (the "optional" Ducks practice that was set-up by Ryan Getzlaf). So, is it possible the players could get together for an "optional" flight arranged by Claude Giroux, and just happen to invite the coaching staff along?
- jmatchett383

That's what I'm thinking. If the players flew with out team officials and just went "alone", it would not have been a violation, like the optional skates other teams held. It's the league vs. the PA so as long as the players arranged it and management wasn't involved anywhere, it's no big deal.

That's what I'm thinking. If the players flew with out team officials and just went "alone", it would not have been a violation, like the optional skates other teams held. It's the league vs. the PA so as long as the players arranged it and management wasn't involved anywhere, it's no big deal.
- NickTheKid87

Guarantee we'd see some sort of issue in terms of travel being not being paid for by the team or some other nonsense.

That was Brooks. What an asshat
- Jsaquella

The fact that Voynov is an accused domestic abuser aside, violating a player's suspension in and of itself is much worse, IMO, and you'd be hard pressed to find many people that disagree.

Here's the problem: Short of a blockbuster trade, the Flyers won't get picks or prospects of any significance for the names people keep putting out there as trade targets. They won't get current NHL roster players of any significance back, either. Meanwhile, the FA markets have becoming increasingly mediocre -- yet overpriced -- because of teams signing guys to pre-emptive extensions.

I am all for acquiring draft picks in volume and hanging onto your own picks when possible but I also know the odds of a pick panning out into an impact NHL player are not great and even when you do hit a home run, the player is almost always going to need multiple years from his draft year to start making that impact. Hell, even most first-round picks need several years.

I think the best course of action here is patience, which includes not holding a fire sale strictly for the sake of change. Do the remake slowly as moves make sense.
- bmeltzer

I understand what your saying but I also see how other teams have been able to move players and get solid returns. Doughas Murray last year got 2 2nd rounders because he filled a need for a playoff team. You don't think Grossmann has that value? I am all for patience but you have to start looking to the future. Not just next year but the year after that too. I know Matt Read has struggled but this isn't a 25 year old player. Is he going to get back to 20 goal player? I don't know. I know Simmonds is loved by everyone but would it serve the team better to maybe get a better ES player and not such a PP specialist. I don't know. But they have to startreworking this roster.

I'm not advocating a fire sale, but I do think a couple of vets need to be moved at the deadline. Grossmann and a 4th should be enough to land a 2nd from a contender and Coburn hopefully a late 1st from another.

Those are moves I would look to make.
- BiggE

Could be over hyped, but many believe this year's draft may be the best talent pool of 17 and 18 year olds ever. Heard some scouts believe that the depth of "NHL certain" prospects goes at least to the half way point of the second round (45 picks).

Contrarian investment theory suggests a really smart GM should go against the trend and this is the year to trade picks for established players. For example, Buffalo would pay attention if the Flyers offered up their #1 pick plus a good player for Tyler Myers.

Could be over hyped, but many believe this year's draft may be the best talent pool of 17 and 18 year olds ever. Heard some scouts believe that the depth of "NHL certain" prospects goes at least to the half way point of the second round (45 picks).

Contrarian investment theory suggests a really smart GM should go against the trend and this is the year to trade picks for established players. For example, Buffalo would pay attention if the Flyers offered up their #1 pick plus a good player for Tyler Myers.
- spatso

Flyers shouldn't trade their #1 pick unless the return is significant. It will be a top 10, maybe top 5 pick.

Guarantee we'd see some sort of issue in terms of travel being not being paid for by the team or some other nonsense.
- Jsaquella

Why? The players just decided that they'd go to Nashville. The team isn't responsible or required to pay for travel to every game, unless a team-supplied shuttle picks up every player from his residence for every home game.

Guarantee we'd see some sort of issue in terms of travel being not being paid for by the team or some other nonsense.
- Jsaquella

I think us fans and the media are making a bigger deal over this rule breaking than the Flyers' players and management and the league. It's such a minor infraction and the benefits of breaking the rule probably outweighed the fine. Not like it mattered in the end though after their loss to the Preds.

Could be over hyped, but many believe this year's draft may be the best talent pool of 17 and 18 year olds ever. Heard some scouts believe that the depth of "NHL certain" prospects goes at least to the half way point of the second round (45 picks).

Contrarian investment theory suggests a really smart GM should go against the trend and this is the year to trade picks for established players. For example, Buffalo would pay attention if the Flyers offered up their #1 pick plus a good player for Tyler Myers.
- spatso

I am assuming that trade proposal is a joke. The 1st round pick by itself is worth more than Tyler Myers.