Doesn't really play a "Russian" game though. He doesn't shy away from the rough going.
- Jsaquella

I know, but some teams will probably still consider that something to keep in mind.

Yeah, but given the way they have played over the last couple years, how much better could you reasonably expect them to play? Umberger was heavily rumored to be on his way to a buy out. Schenn's been inconsistent for years.

I expected both of them to stay on that trajectory, especially after seeing Umberger after the first five games or so.
- Jsaquella

I guess my expectation is that players make adjustments necessary to at least be something close to usable and functional.

I mean, with Schenn... We get it. Everyone understands limitations. We all do. But is it truly asking so much for some level of improvement in some aspect of your game?

Maybe you aren't the fastest. Maybe you aren't the world's greatest puck handler.

But why can't you be an accurate passer? Why can't you master coverages in your own zone, when you are playing in the same system?

How do you just not improve at ANYTHING? That is the biggest disappointment with him, in my book

I guess my expectation is that players make adjustments necessary to at least be something close to usable and functional.

I mean, with Schenn... We get it. Everyone understands limitations. We all do. But is it truly asking so much for some level of improvement in some aspect of your game?

Maybe you aren't the fastest. Maybe you aren't the world's greatest puck handler.

But why can't you be an accurate passer? Why can't you master coverages in your own zone, when you are playing in the same system?

How do you just not improve at ANYTHING? That is the biggest disappointment with him, in my book
- AllInForFlyers

Because he doesn't have the tools to improve.

He doesn't read plays well, and he lacks the explosiveness to recover when he gets himself in bad position. That's how Schenn gets burned, he bites on a play and then can't recover.

Doesn't really play a "Russian" game though. He doesn't shy away from the rough going.
- Jsaquella

Could hope Ryan Gropp drops to round 2 or 3. He's got size and a decent game.

I know, but some teams will probably still consider that something to keep in mind.
- ob18

True, there are teams that have that impediment.

I guess my expectation is that players make adjustments necessary to at least be something close to usable and functional.

I mean, with Schenn... We get it. Everyone understands limitations. We all do. But is it truly asking so much for some level of improvement in some aspect of your game?

Maybe you aren't the fastest. Maybe you aren't the world's greatest puck handler.

But why can't you be an accurate passer? Why can't you master coverages in your own zone, when you are playing in the same system?

How do you just not improve at ANYTHING? That is the biggest disappointment with him, in my book
- AllInForFlyers

Luke Schenn actually handles the puck well and makes a decent pass for a player considered a defensive defenseman. He gets himself into trouble when he stops moving his feet. So many times during the season, he is caught flat footed. With the skating limitations he has, he simply cannot recover from that. Today's players are too quick for that. That, and he has never developed that sense of reading plays, and getting there before the play happens. I wish that he had the same ability that Grossmann has in that area in reading and anticipating plays.

True, there are teams that have that impediment.
- Jsaquella

I'd like to know more about Mattias Elfström,

Could hope Ryan Gropp drops to round 2 or 3. He's got size and a decent game.
- ob18

I'd be surprised if he's still on the board at 40 or so. Good mix of size and skill, not flashy, but he's the kind of guy teams love.

Because he doesn't have the tools to improve.

He doesn't read plays well, and he lacks the explosiveness to recover when he gets himself in bad position. That's how Schenn gets burned, he bites on a play and then can't recover.
- Jsaquella

If people want size then go with Gustav Olhaver.........http://www.eliteprospects.../player.php?player=212720

I rate him as a #3 puck moving all around defenseman. I only wish he had more of a physical edge to his game.
- MJL

I look at the best teams who have been doing it for awhile

Shattenkirk, hjalmarsson, seidenberg, voynov

He's just not on par as an ideal #3 IMO.

He could fit right in on a good d core though

I'd be surprised if he's still on the board at 40 or so. Good mix of size and skill, not flashy, but he's the kind of guy teams love.
- Jsaquella

Yup & they'll miss out not having a 2nd round pick..........Could be a nice add to Buffalo if one of their 1st rounders ends up towards the back end of round 1

Yup & they'll miss out not having a 2nd round pick..........Could be a nice add to Buffalo if one of their 1st rounders ends up towards the back end of round 1
- ob18

That's why I'd be selling at the TDL. We need more picks.

I look at the best teams who have been doing it for awhile

Shattenkirk, hjalmarsson, seidenberg, voynov

He's just not on par as an ideal #3 IMO.

He could fit right in on a good d core though
- Just5

30 teams in the League. I wouldn't put Seidenberg in with that group. Shattenkirk is better then a #3.

Because he doesn't have the tools to improve.

He doesn't read plays well, and he lacks the explosiveness to recover when he gets himself in bad position. That's how Schenn gets burned, he bites on a play and then can't recover.
- Jsaquella

Trust me, I see that. But I will never understand how a limited player who can't get by on physical ability doesn't get better at fundamental skills like passing accuracy or breakout passing.

I mean, for God's sake. What does he work on? I am totally serious. What does he work on, on his game? You can see that Raffl worked on his release and shot. You can see that Couturier has worked on draws and puck protection. Simmonds has shown some improvement, gradual improvement, with the puck.

Even though they aren't masters at those aspects, you can clearly see they have worked on it. What the hell has Schenn actually gotten better at? Is there anything?

Trust me, I see that. But I will never understand how a limited player who can't get by on physical ability doesn't get better at fundamental skills like passing accuracy or breakout passing.

I mean, for God's sake. What does he work on? I am totally serious. What does he work on, on his game? You can see that Raffl worked on his release and shot. You can see that Couturier has worked on draws and puck protection. Simmonds has shown some improvement, gradual improvement, with the puck.

Even though they aren't masters at those aspects, you can clearly see they have worked on it. What the hell has Schenn actually gotten better at? Is there anything?
- AllInForFlyers

I think he has worked on his passing. He's actually not terrible at it. He's not as prone to turnover or poor decisions with the puck as Grossmann. He's just not better than average at it.

Trust me, I see that. But I will never understand how a limited player who can't get by on physical ability doesn't get better at fundamental skills like passing accuracy or breakout passing.

I mean, for God's sake. What does he work on? I am totally serious. What does he work on, on his game? You can see that Raffl worked on his release and shot. You can see that Couturier has worked on draws and puck protection. Simmonds has shown some improvement, gradual improvement, with the puck.

Even though they aren't masters at those aspects, you can clearly see they have worked on it. What the hell has Schenn actually gotten better at? Is there anything?
- AllInForFlyers

He can lace up his skates much more quickly than when he was with Toronto.

I think he has worked on his passing. He's actually not terrible at it. He's not as prone to turnover or poor decisions with the puck as Grossmann. He's just not better than average at it.
- Jsaquella

I see brutal passing from Schenn. But if he gets back in the lineup, I will be more than happy if I see him even being average at that.

I see brutal passing from Schenn. But if he gets back in the lineup, I will be more than happy if I see him even being average at that.
- AllInForFlyers

Oh, he has moments, sure. But he's still about average at passing the puck. Has a decent heavy shot, too

I see brutal passing from Schenn. But if he gets back in the lineup, I will be more than happy if I see him even being average at that.
- AllInForFlyers

I actually feel as though Luke Schenn's puck handling and outlet passing is pretty decent. He'll never be considered a puck mover or an offensive defenseman, but outletting the puck isn't really the issue with Schenn in my opinion.

Oh, he has moments, sure. But he's still about average at passing the puck. Has a decent heavy shot, too
- Jsaquella

He does, but he had the shot as an 18-year-old, back when Toronto thought he really was going to develop into a higher-end Adam Foote. I don't think his shot has gotten better, sadly

I prefer to be an optimist but from July 1 until the end of camp there was just no good reason to do anything but stare losing in the face.
- mayorofangrytown

WTF

I think he has worked on his passing. He's actually not terrible at it. He's not as prone to turnover or poor decisions with the puck as Grossmann. He's just not better than average at it.
- Jsaquella

As sure as hell wasn't worth JVR. That we all know. Right Homer?

He does, but he had the shot as an 18-year-old, back when Toronto thought he really was going to develop into a higher-end Adam Foote. I don't think his shot has gotten better, sadly
- AllInForFlyers

It hasn't. Some guys have lower ceilings and any improvement is minor.

It'd be nice if he had better ability to read a play, because that would negate a lot of his weaknesses that really limit him to being a 4-5 at best.

As sure as hell wasn't worth JVR. That we all know. Right Homer?
- 3flyerkids

Must. Not. revisit. trade....

As sure as hell wasn't worth JVR. That we all know. Right Homer?
- 3flyerkids

Before the JvR for Schenn deal the rumours for Shea Weber were very much a live. Can you believe a package that starts with JvR couldn't get a Weber deal done?