I do believe that all along my point was that you need a very good goalie to win and that a good D core doesn't make up for an average goalie. I also don't buy the idea that an average goalie can win a cup if he is hot entering the playoffs. Serious question: when was the last time an hot average goalie won the cup?
- Habsody

Ward: quite possible Edmonton wins with Rolly in net and Ward wasn't even the starter going into the playoffs. A third stringer took them to game 7.


Niemi, Thomas, Giggy, and Crawford don't even sniff a cup without that defense in front of them.

Quick's 1st cup what'd he face like 20ish shots per game?

We have been craving two top Centers since Roy and Connolly............ We finally have one in Reinhart, why move him to wing?
- ImThatGuy

If we have McEichel, Reinhart, Girgs, we have 3 options for our two top 6 centers. Good problem to have. 4 if you include Grigorenko.

lets face it you and I both know the high scoring 80's messed with that all time list big time.

There were years where the leader in sv% was in the high .89's to low .90's
- dadeadhead

agreed

just feel it's wrong to dismiss thomas


if you think there are 30 great goalies all time in the nhl, he deserves to be in the conversation

lets face it you and I both know the high scoring 80's messed with that all time list big time.

There were years where the leader in sv% was in the high .89's to low .90's
- dadeadhead

To me, it just shows of the technics have improved incredibly. I would say that's the position we have seen the most improvement the past 2 decades. The likes of the Allaire brothers, Stéphane Waite, etc has a lot to do with it. François Allaire butterfly style was revolutionnary in the mid 80's and now you see a more hybrid technic. That's why goalie are so good, that and the size of their equipment.

There are some.

I personally see a ceiling to his offense, he has an average at best shot, and average to above average hands.

He is a dynamite player, and excellent around the net and in his own end. I just don't see a 70 point player yet
- sbroads24

Toews is special because he comes up large in big games and plays a two way game. You seem the same kind of special qualities in Girgs. Toews will never lead the league in points and he isn't near the same kind of force that Kane is.

Also, Toews has only hit 70 points once. I don't see people knocking his offensive game.

I do believe that all along my point was that you need a very good goalie to win and that a good D core doesn't make up for an average goalie. I also don't buy the idea that an average goalie can win a cup if he is hot entering the playoffs. Serious question: when was the last time an hot average goalie won the cup?
- Habsody

Corey Crawford.

Corey Crawford.
- TheSabresTaco

Niemi. It absolutely happens.

To me, it just shows of the technics have improved incredibly. I would say that's the position we have seen the most improvement the past 2 decades. The likes of the Allaire brothers, Stéphane Waite, etc has a lot to do with it. François Allaire butterfly style was revolutionnary in the mid 80's and now you see a more hybrid technic. That's why goalie are so good, that and the size of their equipment.
- Habsody

The size of the equipment has a ton to do with it. Those guys from the 80's back didn't have much protection.


And yes technique has much to do with it too.

They are also much bigger nowadays. (ie:taller)

Fleury was average at best when the pens won

had a great game 6 and 7

Fleury was average at best when the pens won

had a great game 6 and 7
- homiedclown

He was great in the Cup finals the year before though and lost.

Ward: quite possible Edmonton wins with Rolly in net and wasn't even the starter going into the playoffs.


Niemi, Thomas, Giggy, and Crawford don't even sniff a cup without that defense in front of them.

Quick's 1st cup what'd he face like 20ish shots per game?
- dadeadhead

Ward's play was stellar and then injuries slowed him down. He will never be the same goalie and the numbers proove it.

Your 2nd argument is a pure opinion that has no value to me.

As for the number of shots Quick faced, it's irrevelant as irrevelant can be. You can face 20 shots and 8 of them are great scoring chances. The night after you can face 35 shots and 5 of them are great scoring chances. Also, ask any goalie, it's much much tougher to face a low numbers of shots. It's harder to stay hot and you need to stay mentally very strong to keep your focus.

He was great in the Cup finals the year before though and lost.



- dadeadhead

this

agreed

just feel it's wrong to dismiss thomas


if you think there are 30 great goalies all time in the nhl, he deserves to be in the conversation
- homiedclown

Ah but how many Elite goalies have their been all time?

IMO Thomas isn't in the convo.

Ward's play was stellar and then injuries slowed him down. He will never be the same goalie and the numbers proove it.

Your 2nd argument is a pure opinion that has no value to me.

As for the number of shots Quick faced, it's irrevelant as irrevelant can be. You can face 20 shots and 8 of them are great scoring chances. The night after you can face 35 shots and 5 of them are great scoring chances. Also, ask any goalie, it's much much tougher to face a low numbers of shots. It's harder to stay hot and you need to stay mentally very strong to keep your focus.
- Habsody

IMO the only time Ward was stellar in the regular season was 08-09

Ah but how many Elite goalies have their been all time?

IMO Thomas isn't in the convo.
- dadeadhead

great is not elite


IMO there are maybe 15-20 elite goalies all time

and 1 of those never played in the NHL

great is not elite


IMO there are maybe 15-20 elite goalies all time

and 1 of those never played in the NHL
- homiedclown

Tretiak

Niemi. It absolutely happens.
- Slump Buster

Didn't Niemi had a career year last year, i'm pretty sure he was playing for the Sharks and their D isn't close to the Hawks'. As for Crawford, he is a very good goalie, strong body, great technics and strong mentally. I played against him bantam and let me tell you he was already dominant, you could see he had a phenomenal talent. Anyway, you guys' opinion seem set on the question so it might be better we move on another topic.

great is not elite


IMO there are maybe 15-20 elite goalies all time

and 1 of those never played in the NHL
- homiedclown

did that guy also get pulled playing against a bunch of mop headed 18 year olds in lake placid?

Niemi. It absolutely happens.
- Slump Buster

That guy is the worst. I honestly think Enroth is better than Niemi.

Ward's play was stellar and then injuries slowed him down. He will never be the same goalie and the numbers proove it.

Your 2nd argument is a pure opinion that has no value to me.

As for the number of shots Quick faced, it's irrevelant as irrevelant can be. You can face 20 shots and 8 of them are great scoring chances. The night after you can face 35 shots and 5 of them are great scoring chances. Also, ask any goalie, it's much much tougher to face a low numbers of shots. It's harder to stay hot and you need to stay mentally very strong to keep your focus.
- Habsody

Giggy had 2 of the three best defenders in the past twenty year playing 30 mins a night. Without Neids and Pronger that team doesn't win the cup. Pronger gets traded to Edmonton, they go to the cup finals. Pronger gets traded to Anaheim they go and win the cup finals. Pronger gets traded to Philly they go to the finals.

thomas was an avg goalie before Chara went to Boston.

Chicago won two cup with the same main parts with one exception the goalie was different.

Those aren't opinions.

LA's 1st cup run the majority of the Shots Quick faced were from the outside.

IMO the only time Ward was stellar in the regular season was 08-09
- homiedclown

He's playing pretty well right now.

Didn't Niemi had a career year last year, i'm pretty sure he was playing for the Sharks and their D isn't close to the Hawks'. As for Crawford, he is a very good goalie, strong body, great technics and strong mentally. I played against him bantam and let me tell you he was already dominant, you could see he had a phenomenal talent. Anyway, you guys' opinion seem set on the question so it might be better we move on another topic.
- Habsody

Not significant.

IMO the only time Ward was stellar in the regular season was 08-09
- homiedclown

He has a career 910 save percentage and stand at what 924-926 this year on the worst team in the East?

Not significant.
- TheSabresTaco

Agreed, point was he always been a phenomenal talent, Waite just polished his game.

He's playing pretty well right now.
- dadeadhead

yeah somewhere around the 12 best goalie in the nhl

very well does not equal great