i think him and berube are actually very similar in a lot of ways.
- stayinthefnnet

yea one writes B backwards the other one doesn't

Yes, Holmgren broke Pronger's wrist, then hit him in the eye with his stick. He failed to give Matt Carle $6mm a year.

Laviolette has succeeded every where he's gone....at first. He got the Isles to the playoffs, before Milbury dumped half the team. He won a Cup in Carolina, then never made the playoffs there again. He had a great start in Philly, and by the end the team simply tuned him out. He's doing great in Nashville, but look at his defense & goalie.

He's a fantastic coach, when he has the players to run his system.

Also, I'm not blaming just him. I put plenty of blame on Holmgren, too. They both should have been fired after the 2012-13 season. Saying one deserved to be fired isn't excusing the other.
- Jsaquella

Don't forget that Homer also gave Nashville the $$ to match the Shea Weber offer sheet and made a pact with Satan to give Timonen blood clots.

The screwing up of Bob happened before they signed Bryz in the way he was handled during the playoffs. Lavi should have rode him, instead he panicked after one bad period and Bob never saw the ice again until the final playoff game. By that time it didn't matter.
- MBFlyerfan

Oh no doubt.. But that's why I think it was compounded upon. Lavi was the first problem with him, but I think it just got worse from there..

I mean, sure, nobody knows what goes on behind the scenes... but that whole situation kinda pissed me off... I'm not gonna lie..

i thought you also wanted eakins
- PhillaBully

I did. And Spott, as well.

I seem to recall that some guy named Clode got called up on an emergency basis for his NHL debut:


- johndewar

He also had a hell of a shootout move. He didn't score, but it was cool. If only he wasn't a winger, we'd have a top line center.

The screwing up of Bob happened before they signed Bryz in the way he was handled during the playoffs. Lavi should have rode him, instead he panicked after one bad period and Bob never saw the ice again until the final playoff game. By that time it didn't matter.
- MBFlyerfan

Dunno... why was a rookie goalie, who had never had a goaltending coach before crossing the pond, could barely speak any English, and had technical problems up the wazoo, being tasked with carrying the hopes of a team w/ clear Cup-aspirations?

I don't think it would have ended up well, no matter who the coach was. He was going to get exposed sooner or later. They really dropped the ball by rushing him. Luckily the Jackets straightened him out.

I'm gonna go ahead and agree that, while Lavi's failure to adapt is 100% on himself, management tried to force his hand by molding a more "defense first" roster. In retrospect, this wasn't a wise way to go about things. In a sense, they kind of set him up to fail. If you're going to pull the rug out from under him like that, why waffle around with giving him that comically short leash prior to firing him? Why not fire him when other coaching options were available? If they were set on Berube taking over, why not give him a training camp to get his ducks in a row?

As for Couturier, his handling wasn't ideal. That hasn't reversed since Lavi was dismissed, though. Couts is still taking 177,000% of his draws in the defensive zone. So, maybe it has to do with the number of defensive zone draws, or maybe the lack of anybody else they can trust to take them?

As for the Bob thing, Lavi fumbled that one. Of course, the reaction by the brass was... well, I think that one's more than spoken for.

Insightful, progressive, flexible, proven.
- Tomahawk

Replace the P's with B's and make it plural!

Rinaldo on the top line. And I thought we had already hit rock bottom.
- Daveflyers36

he's not coach yet

Don't forget that Homer also gave Nashville the $$ to match the Shea Weber offer sheet and made a pact with Satan to give Timonen blood clots.
- jmatchett383

Timonen is irrelevant. He would have been a 39 year old worn out d-man. Yes better than anything we have now (which is sad) but would not have been that much help. I honestly think we would be in worse off shape if we were saddled with Weber's contract, if Homer wouldn't have bought it out.

Don't forget that Homer also gave Nashville the $$ to match the Shea Weber offer sheet and made a pact with Satan to give Timonen blood clots.
- jmatchett383

Timonen is irrelevant. He would have been a 39 year old worn out d-man. Yes better than anything we have now (which is sad) but would not have been that much help. I honestly think we would be in worse off shape if we were saddled with Weber's contract, if Homer wouldn't have bought it out.

I'm gonna go ahead and agree that, while Lavi's failure to adapt is 100% on himself, management tried to force his hand by molding a more defense first roster. In retrospect, this wasn't a wise way to go about things. In a sense, they kind of set him up to fail. If you're going to pull the rug out from under him like that, why waffle around with giving him that comically short leash prior to firing him? Why not fire him when other coaching options were available? If they were set on Berube taking over, why not give him a training camp to get his ducks in a row?

As for Couturier, his handling wasn't ideal. That hasn't reversed since Lavi was dismissed, though. Couts is still taking 177,000% of his draws in the defensive zone. So, maybe it has to do with the number of defensive zone draws, or maybe the lack of anybody else they can trust to take them?

As for the Bob thing, Lavi fumbled that one. Of course, the reaction by the brass was... well, I think that one's more than spoken for.
- BulliesPhan87

Firing Laviolette and replacing him with a head of lettuce. Who knew it wouldn't pan out.

I'm gonna go ahead and agree that, while Lavi's failure to adapt is 100% on himself, management tried to force his hand by molding a more "defense first" roster. In retrospect, this wasn't a wise way to go about things. In a sense, they kind of set him up to fail. If you're going to pull the rug out from under him like that, why waffle around with giving him that comically short leash prior to firing him? Why not fire him when other coaching options were available? If they were set on Berube taking over, why not give him a training camp to get his ducks in a row?

As for Couturier, his handling wasn't ideal. That hasn't reversed since Lavi was dismissed, though. Couts is still taking 177,000% of his draws in the defensive zone. So, maybe it has to do with the number of defensive zone draws, or maybe the lack of anybody else they can trust to take them?

As for the Bob thing, Lavi fumbled that one. Of course, the reaction by the brass was... well, I think that one's more than spoken for.
- BulliesPhan87

instead of moving zac to the front line why not put couturier up there and see how he drives the bus? it cant (frank)ing hurt

Firing Laviolette and replacing him with a head of lettuce. Who knew it wouldn't pan out.
- PLindbergh31

Lettuce put aside dislike for Berube, for the sake of argument.

Timonen is irrelevant. He would have been a 39 year old worn out d-man. Yes better than anything we have now (which is sad) but would not have been that much help. I honestly think we would be in worse off shape if we were saddled with Weber's contract, if Homer wouldn't have bought it out.
- Daveflyers36

If we have Shea Weber, I doubt we sign Andrew MacDonald.

I would be quite OK with that scenario and I don't hate MacDonald. Just his contract and when he is forced to play too many important minutes.

And he had the players to run his system. The team succeeded under him. It didn't start going down hill untill Holmgren got rid of 90 percent of the 2010 team by 2012. Blaming any coach for that is insane.
- Daveflyers36

I'm not blaming the coach for that. I'm blaming him for not adapting to the players he had.

When you lose a Pronger & Carle, they're not exactly easy to replace. Blaming Holmgren for not being able to replace Pronger is just as insane as blaming Laviolette for the rain.

Let's not forget Holmgren did attempt to bring in Suter & Weber, but couldn't, through no fault of his own. In that case, a coach needs to look at the pieces he has and change what he is doing.

Laviolette failed in that respect, like he did in Carolina.

I seem to recall that some guy named Clode got called up on an emergency basis for his NHL debut:


- johndewar

They even put him in on the shootout.

instead of moving zac to the front line why not put couturier up there and see how he drives the bus? it cant (frank)ing hurt
- JoeRussomanno

Because we can't have our top line center taking all the defensive zone draws and playing every PK. It's entirely unprecedented.

Timonen is irrelevant. He would have been a 39 year old worn out d-man. Yes better than anything we have now (which is sad) but would not have been that much help. I honestly think we would be in worse off shape if we were saddled with Weber's contract, if Homer wouldn't have bought it out.
- Daveflyers36

So you blame Homer for not replacing Pronger, then shred him for trying to sign Weber to replace Pronger?

Timonen is irrelevant. He would have been a 39 year old worn out d-man. Yes better than anything we have now (which is sad) but would not have been that much help. I honestly think we would be in worse off shape if we were saddled with Weber's contract, if Homer wouldn't have bought it out.
- Daveflyers36

I was actually talking more about the blood clots in the 07/08 playoffs.

Edit: If (big if) we have Shea Weber, we probably don't have at least 2 of AMac, Streit, and VLC. I think we'd have been A-okay.

Lettuce put aside dislike for Berube, for the sake of argument.
- BulliesPhan87

Well played.

I was actually talking more about the blood clots in the 07/08 playoffs.
- jmatchett383

That ECF would have been a much closer series had Timonen played.

As I recall, Coburn was also hurt, at least for Game 1.

Lettuce put aside dislike for Berube, for the sake of argument.
- BulliesPhan87

I was actually talking more about the blood clots in the 07/08 playoffs.

Edit: If (big if) we have Shea Weber, we probably don't have at least 2 of AMac, Streit, and VLC. I think we'd have been A-okay.
- jmatchett383

- johndewar

i hate his face so much. he looks like an out of shape, poop head, beer leaguer whom i want to hextall in the crotchular region.