Ryan Wilson: Is Brandon Sutter Really Playing Better Hockey in 2014-15? Is Brandon Sutter Really Playing Better Hockey in 2014-15?

Well, if the advanced equations say no, then it must be no, right? Regardless of his play and production, it has to be no, says Mr. Marr.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w...idge%27s_law_of_headlines

que the trade talk.....with these number backing it up....i will hafta agree with the majority and let him go as long as the return is good

cue the trade talk.....with these number backing it up....i will hafta agree with the majority and let him go as long as the return is good
- pensfan024

Well, if the advanced equations say no, then it must be no, right? Regardless of his play and production, it has to be no, says Mr. Marr.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w...idge%27s_law_of_headlines
- jmatchett383

booooo

We have to keep him this year at least for a cup run. Goc can't handle third line duties to save his life. Next year or draft day trade Sutter for a good pick, maybe package in Dumoulin for a great pick. He won't be moved unless Sundqvist can handle 3rd or 4th line duties and we can sign another center in the offseason that can handle the other line. Orrrr we could move Spaling to center, because you know his selling point was that he can play all three forward positions.. and he would be where he belongs, the bottom 6.

Today’s #Pens lines:
Perron-Crosby-Downie
Spaling/Sill-Malkin-Bennett
Kunitz-Sutter-Rust
Ebbett-Goc-Adams

Wtf sill on 2nd line.. Kuni on 3rd and adams over farnham (yes I know I don't like farnham and I think he shouldn't be in nhl, but he is better than adams)

I know for one that I am no advanced stats genius. That being said, if the numbers say that Goc is a better player than Sutter, why can't he ever seem to finish a play? You can say that his linemates are not as good but if an Adams or Sill do somehow send him a nice pass and he misses the open net, where does that show up in the numbers?

If Goc were a better player than Sutter why wouldn't the coaches flip them on the depth chart.

I guess I just don't understand.

Today’s #Pens lines:
Perron-Crosby-Downie
Spaling/Sill-Malkin-Bennett
Kunitz-Sutter-Rust
Ebbett-Goc-Adams

Wtf sill on 2nd line.. Kuni on 3rd and adams over farnham (yes I know I don't like farnham and I think he shouldn't be in nhl, but he is better than adams)
- nh4442

Its practice.

Today’s #Pens lines:
Perron-Crosby-Downie
Spaling/Sill-Malkin-Bennett
Kunitz-Sutter-Rust
Ebbett-Goc-Adams

Wtf sill on 2nd line.. Kuni on 3rd and adams over farnham (yes I know I don't like farnham and I think he shouldn't be in nhl, but he is better than adams)
- nh4442

At least Ebbett isn't with Geno now.. oh wait now he has Spaling OR Sill. I bet he's excited.

I guess the real question is whether his position makes him a better trade asset than what his performance dictates.

Teams who are starved for centers may pay an inflated price for Sutter. Hell, Edmonton may want to trade for Sutter even after dealing Perron for a pick. Why not?

Then again, if Sutter was a wing who couldn't find the net we would all be wondering who his center is. The charting displays how Sutter's teammates perform on and off of his line.

Its practice.
- Reverend Killtaker

Understand but how do you build chemistry? Is he just screwing with the other team... what would benefit from these lines?

I like MJ I'm just confused about his lines sometimes...

While Sutter has not played significantly better in terms of points or possession stats this season (versus his career), I would argue, without knowing the stats (eye test only) that Crosby and Malkin also fit into the same category. While I can't say for sure...I think these past 19 games (10-6-3?) have seen a downward trend in those numbers for everybody because of injuries.

When the Penguins forwards are all healthy (an extremely rare occasion) they have the depth and balance to be a strong possession team and we have seen how that leads to chances, goals and victories. As much as I understand and respect the possession stats, I still don't necessarily agree with separating players out and then using that as a way to determine if they are playing better. If the team wins and you notice a guy playing a part in that win...he's doing his job...and of course, the opposite is true as well.

I'd be curious to see how the points and possession numbers look in the first 20 (14-4-2) games versus the second 19 games (10-6-3) as clearly the injuries at forward have changed the dynamics of the team enough to affect the numbers.

What I do like about Sutter this season is the increased ice time...up about 2-3 mins per game from last season. He's being relied on more than last year and to me that's a good thing for the Pens (Malkin and Crosby should have more in the tank when needed).

Did you guys see the Sledge hockey thing that Gatorade did with Crosby, Giroux, Hartnell, MacKinnon, Couture and Miller? Just great stuff...



There are a couple other video's on GatoradeCanada's channel including one that focuses more on the NHL players' side.

F Sutter


WWJJD

Did you guys see the Sledge hockey thing that Gatorade did with Crosby, Giroux, Hartnell, MacKinnon, Couture and Miller? Just great stuff...



There are a couple other video's on GatoradeCanada's channel including one that focuses more on the NHL players' side.
- rival22

That was really cool. Thanks for sharing.

Did you guys see the Sledge hockey thing that Gatorade did with Crosby, Giroux, Hartnell, MacKinnon, Couture and Miller? Just great stuff...



There are a couple other video's on GatoradeCanada's channel including one that focuses more on the NHL players' side.
- rival22

That's awesome

Understand but how do you build chemistry? Is he just screwing with the other team... what would benefit from these lines?

I like MJ I'm just confused about his lines sometimes...
- nh4442

He's getting guys back healthy and has others up from WBS and Perron who was just added. He's looking to find chemistry. Rather do that now while the call ups are here and at practice rather than in the game.

I'm really not understanding this idea of playing Spaling in the top 6 over Kunitz. I know Kunitz has definitely lost a step, but at least he once was a viable top 6 option and I have to believe he still has some of that. Spaling has never been a viable top 6 option. He has gotten such an extended look up there it is ridiculous. The only thing I can think of is that they are desperately trying to showcase him in the hopes somebody takes him off the Pens hands.

When the Penguins forwards are all healthy (an extremely rare occasion) they have the depth and balance to be a strong possession team and we have seen how that leads to chances, goals and victories. As much as I understand and respect the possession stats, I still don't necessarily agree with separating players out and then using that as a way to determine if they are playing better. If the team wins and you notice a guy playing a part in that win...he's doing his job...and of course, the opposite is true as well.

I'd be curious to see how the points and possession numbers look in the first 20 (14-4-2) games versus the second 19 games (10-6-3) as clearly the injuries at forward have changed the dynamics of the team enough to affect the numbers.
- icedog97

I totally agree.

I really think we can throw out all the stats for the past month (both simple and advanced) as being relevant due to the large number of players being on IR (as many as ten!). How can Sutter do well when his line is constantly changing and usually has players who should be in WBS?

Also, I think comparing the third and fourth lines is invalid. The fourth line gets much less ice time than the third and the expectations are different between them. The third is expected to occasionally score and play a decent number of minutes so the top two lines don't get worn out. The fourth is primarily expected play more physically, prevent the other team from scoring, and give a brief rest to the other lines.

Because the fourth line players do not play much they rarely get injured. A player's chances of getting injured are much greater if he plays 15 minutes per game as opposed to 7. In addition the players coming from WBS are usually not fourth line players and they often jump right to the third line. This ironically has led to the Pens' fourth line being more stable than its third line. Its numbers are about where they should be while the third line's numbers are distorted due to the constant changing of the line. This doesn't mean that the lines could swap and the fourth line could fulfill a third line role.

But when most of those wingers aren't playing with sutter, they are either with Malkin or Sid. Any player will have better numbers next to sid than sutter

I'm really not understanding this idea of playing Spaling in the top 6 over Kunitz. I know Kunitz has definitely lost a step, but at least he once was a viable top 6 option and I have to believe he still has some of that. Spaling has never been a viable top 6 option. He has gotten such an extended look up there it is ridiculous. The only thing I can think of is that they are desperately trying to showcase him in the hopes somebody takes him off the Pens hands.
- PensFan1103

Get ready for the debate about he isn't getting points bc he's not playing with sid and how could you move him bc of 2009-11 and others saying if he was truly a top 6 talent he should be able to put up points on 3rd line.. I call it the dupuis conundrum

Hmmm

Lol I think he is losing a step or two but is still top 6 and have no problem with him with geno.

Get ready for the debate about he isn't getting points bc he's not playing with sid and how could you move him bc of 2009-11 and others saying if he was truly a top 6 talent he should be able to put up points on 3rd line.. I call it the dupuis conundrum

Hmmm

Lol I think he is losing a step or two but is still top 6 and have no problem with him with geno.
- nh4442

Him and malkin were great together earlier this year.
Perron-Sid-horn
Kunitz-malkin-downie/comeau/trade

You get the top line that draws the other teams best shutdown units, then malkin comes up against the other teams 2nd and 3rd D pairings and scores.

F Sutter


WWJJD
- nbartley9

who the hell cares what justin johnson would do!?!?

Him and malkin were great together earlier this year.
Perron-Sid-horn
Kunitz-malkin-downie/comeau/trade

You get the top line that draws the other teams best shutdown units, then malkin comes up against the other teams 2nd and 3rd D pairings and scores.
- drummer829

Yeah, I have no problem with Kunitz playing with Malkin. I just don't understand the logic behind putting him with Sutter like they did on Saturday and looks like they plan on staying with tomorrow.