Lol. Of course the talent is a problem with this team. I just cant understand why the dont show up with any sort of emotion against rivals or in must win situations. They only show up with that emotion when they play Pitt.
- GOA88

I think it's kind of in the same vein as why goal scorers get streaky, or defensive players can fight the puck for long stretches. Once you've lost confidence, it affects all aspects of play, and it's tough to get back.

That's not an excuse, failure is still failure. But as much as the roster needs fixing, key players need to get back on track.

Pronger's personality is definitely the type I like for a captain. Even Jason Smith I liked as captain. I'm not really buying the whole Toews is a great captain talk. Look at the supporting cast he has. Its easy to be a captain with that roster.....
- GOA88

Toews is a great captain because he's the closest thing there is to this generation's Jean Beliveau. Same reason Iginla was a great captain. They're very well-respected by everyone both on and off the ice, and are absolutely ferocious competitors who will do anything to win.

I think Giroux is a pretty dam good Captain. I value a Captain on the ice far more then a Captain in the room. Lead by example, the rest is just talk. Calling out a player is easy to do.
- MJL

If you let your on ice play dictate your leadership, it makes that much easier to be a captain off the ice as well. If you walk the talk then you able to talk the walk.

I think Giroux is a pretty dam good Captain. I value a Captain on the ice far more then a Captain in the room. Lead by example, the rest is just talk. Calling out a player is easy to do.
- MJL

I just said I thought he was a good captain, just not a "great" one. The type of captain I prefer, again, is a player who leads by example both on and off the ice. Anyone can call anyone out, but when you're a guy like Pronger or Dustin Brown, it carries a lot more with it, and is basically unquestionable.

Execution is part of the equation for sure, but there's lot's of reasons for why execution is poor at times. Some of it talent and ability, but not all of it.
- MJL

The thing that gets me is these are all professional hockey players right? Why cant they make simple plays? Just sayin.

Depth of skill is very shallow. They're a lot like the Leafs... a few guys that are carrying play, and then a bunch of others who are purely passengers (or just hanging on by the skin of their teeth) dragging the whole thing down.

Meanwhile, not enough cap space to do anything about it since so many guys are getting paid more than they should.
- Tomahawk

I don't think the team's depth of skill is shallow. I think they lack a top defense pair, and they don't have the right mix of players that mesh with each other. The Flyers have a lot of good talented players on their team. What's been the 2nd line is a perfect example. All 3 players are the sanme kind of players, all have skill, but simply isn't the right mix of players to provide consistent offense.

Toews is a great captain because he's the closest thing there is to this generation's Jean Beliveau. Same reason Iginla was a great captain. They're very well-respected by everyone both on and off the ice, and are absolutely ferocious competitors who will do anything to win.
- jmatchett383

If the Blackhawks don't win 2 cups is Toew's still a great captain? There are many competitors on that team that do anything to win and who have played longer than Toews.

I just said I thought he was a good captain, just not a "great" one. The type of captain I prefer, again, is a player who leads by example both on and off the ice. Anyone can call anyone out, but when you're a guy like Pronger or Dustin Brown, it carries a lot more with it, and is basically unquestionable.
- jmatchett383

How do you know that Giroux doesn't lead by example off of the ice?

I just said I thought he was a good captain, just not a "great" one. The type of captain I prefer, again, is a player who leads by example both on and off the ice. Anyone can call anyone out, but when you're a guy like Pronger or Dustin Brown, it carries a lot more with it, and is basically unquestionable.
- jmatchett383

I wouldn't mind adding that kind of personality to the locker room. That kind of player doesn't need a C on his jersey to exert his influence. Pronger sure didn't in 2010.

The thing that gets me is these are all professional hockey players right? Why cant they make simple plays? Just sayin.
- GOA88

This isn't golf. There are 5 players on the other team (most teams with better players than the Flyers) who are trying to prevent them form making simple plays. Right now, they are a bad team. And as much as they are professional hockey players, they are in a rut. Again: They are not robots, and their confidence has to be at an all-time low, which contributes to poor play.

How do you know that Giroux doesn't lead by example off of the ice?
- MJL

I never said he doesn't. Are you REALLY not getting what I'm saying? That a guy like Chris Pronger is a better captain than a guy like Claude Giroux?

The thing that gets me is these are all professional hockey players right? Why cant they make simple plays? Just sayin.
- GOA88

I agree with this. I get confidence is a big part but when you can't complete a simple pass or are constantly out of position. That isn't confidence, that is feeling sorry for yourself. I think Matt Read is now at the "Whoa is me" point.

I just said I thought he was a good captain, just not a "great" one. The type of captain I prefer, again, is a player who leads by example both on and off the ice. Anyone can call anyone out, but when you're a guy like Pronger or Dustin Brown, it carries a lot more with it, and is basically unquestionable.
- jmatchett383

Bobby Clarke set the standard. Greatest captain ever, IMO

I wouldn't mind adding that kind of personality to the locker room. That kind of player doesn't need a C on his jersey to exert his influence. Pronger sure didn't in 2010.
- BulliesPhan87

That's my point. No matter who the "captain" was, he was a great leader, and he could do it just by looking a teammate in the eyes.

I never said he doesn't. Are you REALLY not getting what I'm saying? That a guy like Chris Pronger is a better captain than a guy like Claude Giroux?
- jmatchett383

Do you think he'd have a shot at developing into the top line LW they need?
- BiggE

Yes i do but I'd take Zacha & Marnier if available first

If the Blackhawks don't win 2 cups is Toew's still a great captain? There are many competitors on that team that do anything to win and who have played longer than Toews.
- Daveflyers36

I do think he is. It's not about talent (it helps) or length of your career (again, it helps A LOT). It's more of an intangible quality. You need be able to have every other player unquestionably follow you and to lead by example. I think Toews does that better than most.

I never said he doesn't. Are you REALLY not getting what I'm saying? That a guy like Chris Pronger is a better captain than a guy like Claude Giroux?
- jmatchett383

Pronger is probably one of the greatest captains. Ever. Its no mistake he led 3 different teams to the cup finals. 2 of them being when it was his first season with the team. (Edm, Phi)

I know he wasnt the "captain" of each team but he was the leader. No question.

How do you know that Giroux doesn't lead by example off of the ice?
- MJL

I didn't hear of anyone else goosing any cops lately, that's on G

Pronger's personality is definitely the type I like for a captain. Even Jason Smith I liked as captain. I'm not really buying the whole Toews is a great captain talk. Look at the supporting cast he has. Its easy to be a captain with that roster.....
- GOA88

Jonathan Toews is one of the most decorated NHL players presently, and he's been decorated from very early in his career. You talk about this supporting cast that he has, which is true--but all of those guys came up together. They matured and grew up together. Chicago is the perfect example of a successful post-lockout organization because they draft well, they scout well, and they're able to put a good product on the ice, even when they had to make wholesale changes.

Pronger is probably one of the greatest captains. Ever. Its no mistake he led 3 different teams to the cup finals. 2 of them being when it was his first season with the team. (Edm, Phi)

I know he wasnt the "captain" of each team but he was the leader. No question.
- GOA88

Well, I will say that he and Scott Neidermayer were more or less the co-leaders of that Anaheim team.

But no, can't be. Every player who plays well on the ice is a great captain.

I do think he is. It's not about talent (it helps) or length of your career (again, it helps A LOT). It's more of an intangible quality. You need be able to have every other player unquestionably follow you and to lead by example. I think Toews does that better than most.
- jmatchett383

Can't debate Pronger was a force to be reckoned with. But you know the above about Toews how?

Well, I will say that he and Scott Neidermayer were more or less the co-leaders of that Anaheim team.

But no, can't be. Every player who plays well on the ice is a great captain.
- jmatchett383

you mad, bro

Can't debate Pronger was a force to be reckoned with. But you know the above about Toews how?
- wolfhounds

Thats what I'm saying. "Blackhawks Win!!! Toews must be a great leader!!"

I didn't hear of anyone else goosing any cops lately, that's on G
- Just5

I think Pronger had a legendary handle on the media. G is good with them but Pronger would hand them their crap right back and they'd lick it off his fingers and beg for more. I miss his looks of "you're an idiot and you know it", or "REALLY? Did you just lower yourself to ask me that" look.
In other aspects I think G does a fine job...