Seems like the reporters are saying MacDonald is not likeling being benched and doesn't agree with Berube. Maybe he'll ask for a trade.


- J35Bacher

We should be the ones not liking his benching because it not only means his play isn't helping the team, but, more importantly, it validates the beliefs of those of us who trumpet that it was a terrible contract to begin with.

are we done arguing about stats/eye test and grossmann yet?

Do you like Grossmann? Do...you?
- SuperSchennBros

Yes. I just think hes a mediocre to below average player. I have no issue with one guy like Grossmann. Its when you have 2 or 3 like him, and ignore his weaknesses and refuse to scratch him, as if he is Larry Robinson or Rod Langway

I would worry if he thought otherwise.
- MJL

good point

are we done arguing about stats/eye test and grossmann yet?
- hammarby31

We've moved on to whether you prefer butter on the top of your bread or the bottom

Yes. I just think hes a mediocre to below average player. I have no issue with one guy like Grossmann. Its when you have 2 or 3 like him, and ignore his weaknesses and refuse to scratch him, as if he is Larry Robinson or Rod Langway
- Jsaquella

That's the problem...all are avg or slightly below avg d-men.....I like Schenn or Grossmann .... But to have both in your lineup playing that much is a recipe for mediochraty ...

We've moved on to whether you prefer butter on the top of your bread or the bottom
- PhillySportsGuy

where I prefer butter on my bread is a context sensitive determination. Is that bread simply to be eaten on its own. Or is it the top slice on a delicious sandwich? If it's the latter, I'd probably want it on the bottom. Otherwise, I'd want it on top. That's really the best way to manage your bread/butter situation. And the way top bread butterers in the league prefer.

I mean...to be fair- some of these are just routine plays. Coming from someone not in the argument.
- Giroux_Is_God

Oh, yeah I know, but a couple of them show hustle and competency in completeing basic passes...nobody's saying the guy is Paul Coffey.

The detractors seem to portray the guy as not even capable of making the routine passes and not being able to skate to make plays...the vids I posted show that's clearly a falsehood...and again, these aren't cherry picked highlight clips from multiple games... they're a sampling from just one game...I can find similar clips from many games, including this season, showing Grossmann skating well to make hustle plays and making good basic passes, as he does this on a regular basis...seems like many are blind to this.

where I prefer butter on my bread is a context sensitive determination. Is that bread simply to be eaten on its own. Or is it the top slice on a delicious sandwich? If it's the latter, I'd probably want it on the bottom. Otherwise, I'd want it on top. That's really the best way to manage your bread/butter situation. And the way top bread butterers in the league prefer.
- BulliesPhan87

damn. a sandwich with butter as a condiment? next level stuff.

Yes. I just think hes a mediocre to below average player. I have no issue with one guy like Grossmann. Its when you have 2 or 3 like him, and ignore his weaknesses and refuse to scratch him, as if he is Larry Robinson or Rod Langway
- Jsaquella

I'm sad I always miss the advanced stats arguments... Strong knowledge of the law of large numbers...

These are my thoughts exactly. Grossmann does possess some assets that NHL teams can still find valuable. Perhaps even in the top 4 on a team where the 1-3 defenders are great. However, he is an awful fit for what we have now.

I hope what bill said is correct though. If so, there should be a market for Grossmann. I've wanted to see him traded now for some time.

YOU ARE MY MORTAL ENEMY
- GOA88

pfft whatevs...

are we done arguing about stats/eye test and grossmann yet?
- hammarby31

no, hockeybuzz is up and running.

I'm sad I always miss the advanced stats arguments... Strong knowledge of the law of large numbers...

These are my thoughts exactly. Grossmann does possess some assets that NHL teams can still find valuable. Perhaps even in the top 4 on a team where the 1-3 defenders are great. However, he is an awful fit for what we have now.

I hope what bill said is correct though. If so, there should be a market for Grossmann. I've wanted to see him traded now for some time.
- JFlyers00

i suppose if one's lovelife is lacking then yes

damn. a sandwich with butter as a condiment? next level stuff.
- stayinthefnnet

the butter sandwich is the key to my professional success

Not just that, but you can cherry pick videos of good play from just about any player, good or bad, so it really doesn't do much,.
- MJL

I guess theoretically, one could cherry pick positive or negative clips for just about any player, yes...but, speaking for myself, when I post video clips, it's usually not cherry picked highlights from a bunch of games or seasons in order to portray a player in an overly positive or negative way...rather, they're a sampling of play to address a specific point...as in this case, I wanted to show that, contrary to some people's beliefs, Grossmann is quite capable of skating effectively (at his size) and making good basic puck moving plays. The multiple video clips (from just one game) clearly show that.

Another example was when you refuted my claim that Akeson was an impact player in the playoff series and on that line (with Coots and Read) against the Rangers last season. The video clips/links I posted weren't a bunch of cherry picked highlights from his AHL/OHL/NHL games, trying to show how great he is, rather they were very specifically taken from the series in question and clearly displayed he was an impact player on that line and in that series.

We've moved on to whether you prefer butter on the top of your bread or the bottom
- PhillySportsGuy

both

I live on the edge

i suppose if one's lovelife is lacking then yes
- JoeRussomanno

How are those two topics related?

How are those two topics related?
- JFlyers00

http://www.snopes.com/science/stats/thinksex.asp see if this helps

I'm sad I always miss the advanced stats arguments... Strong knowledge of the law of large numbers...

These are my thoughts exactly. Grossmann does possess some assets that NHL teams can still find valuable. Perhaps even in the top 4 on a team where the 1-3 defenders are great. However, he is an awful fit for what we have now.

I hope what bill said is correct though. If so, there should be a market for Grossmann. I've wanted to see him traded now for some time.
- JFlyers00

Really, that's a big issue with this team. It's not that they have bad players, it's that they have a bad mix of players. Every single one of the Flyers regular defenseman are good NHL defenseman of varying degrees. It's really just that the Flyers lack a legitimate top pairing.

I guess theoretically, one could cherry pick positive or negative clips for just about any player, yes...but, speaking for myself, when I post video clips, it's usually not cherry picked highlights from a bunch of games or seasons in order to portray a player in an overly positive or negative way...rather, they're a sampling of play to address a specific point...as in this case, I wanted to show that, contrary to some people's beliefs, Grossmann is quite capable of skating effectively (at his size) and making good basic puck moving plays. The multiple video clips (from just one game) clearly show that.


- exlund

I agree with all of your opinions that you've posted on Grossmann in this thread. I think you're on the money with your analysis of Grossmann as a player. Honestly, putting together a video collection regardless of intent just isn't a good way of backing those opinions up. It's just too easy to only select certain videos to make any player look good. And I'm not saying you've done that. But that can be easily done for any player.

http://www.snopes.com/science/stats/thinksex.asp see if this helps
- JoeRussomanno

"54% of men think about sex every day or several times a day, 43% a few times per month or a few times per week, and 4% less than once a month."

This is pure bullpoop.

"54% of men think about sex every day or several times a day, 43% a few times per month or a few times per week, and 4% less than once a month."

This is pure bullpoop.
- jmatchett383

agreed, more made up nonsense from the stats crowd

agreed, more made up nonsense from the stats crowd
- BulliesPhan87

I thought the 03/04 team was kind of like that. Sure, they had some name players like Roenick, Gagne, Primeau, Recchi, and Amonte, but they didn't have a real game-breaker of elite superstar. They weren't very glitzy or glamorous. They were a well-coached, hard-working bunch. Their leading scorer had 78 points, and their next highest was Handzus at 58. It wasn't really "boring" but it wasn't the mid-80s Oilers, either. I'd have no problem with a team like that.
- jmatchett383

Scoring in bunches was always the strength of the Flyers though. You bring up a good point but the top nine of Roenick, Amonte, LeClair, Recchi, Primeau, Kapanen, and Gagne were no longer game breaking stars, even when you add Alex Zhamnov but we were deep in terms of scoring through three lines. It was no different when we decided to go younger with a top nine of Briere, Gagne, Richards, Carter, Hartnell, Lupul, Upshall and Umberger. Still not much of a change when you look at the most recent rosters of Giroux, Voracek, Simmonds, B. Schenn, Couturier, Read, Hartnell, Briere/Lecavalier. The difference is we've lived and died by exciting, reckless offense and the Devils suffocate with boring, discipline defense.

Yes. I just think hes a mediocre to below average player. I have no issue with one guy like Grossmann. Its when you have 2 or 3 like him, and ignore his weaknesses and refuse to scratch him, as if he is Larry Robinson or Rod Langway
- Jsaquella

I like Grossmann I agree with you for the most part, I just don't see him as below average. I view him as effective within his role.