That's where, I personally, would be willing to part with one of our prospect Dmen in favor of a deal for a centerpiece Dman now or within a year or two. The forwards, as under-productive as they have been this season, outside the first line, really aren't in bad shape. Get rid of Vinny and Umby.. you get their cap.. improve that third line.. maybe trade Read for something... and start moving out the Dmen in favor of our prospects as they are ready. But one thing they will lack, is the Weber.. the Suter.. the Pronger... the Neidermeyer.. etc.. I truly think they need a centerpiece Dman to build around. Once you have one in place, and start adding young guys around him (Morin, Hagg, Sanheim, Alt, Ghost).

I know it's easier said than done, but I don't think a massive blowup is necessary, nor do I think Hextall needs to waste the best years of G's and Jake's best years in "patience"... Sure, it would still take 2 years minimum, but I think it's possible. They just need to stop doing crappy stuff and be smart. Hope Hextall can pull through!
- WarriorHockey21

Yeah and that's the problem. No one is willing to move those guys unless your getting them heading into their later years like Pronger was. That is why I would maybe take shots at guys like Bogosian, Adam Larrson, Brandon Gormley.

Also for a winger i wouldn't mind seeing on the Flyers top line. Mikkel Boedker. I think he would look nice on one of the top two lines.

I agree, if a trade for an established top defenseman presents itself, and the cost is within reason, they have to make it. Even if it costs them one of the defense prospects, but only for a legit all situations player.
- MJL

Yep

Luke Schenn > Nik Grossmann
- Tomahawk

They're about the same, really. Schenn makes more glaring and noticeable mistakes, but he's also better with the puck most of the time. He's also got more speed-which isn't to say he's fast, but he's definitely faster than Grossmann.

I think the biggest consideration is, the Flyers are not a good transitional team to begin with, for many reasons. Grossmann's ability to move the puck out consistently contributes to that, leads to more time spent in the zone and running around, which then leads to guys getting exposed.

Neither is much more than a 4-5 guy, so neither is really an irreplaceable part.

That's where, I personally, would be willing to part with one of our prospect Dmen in favor of a deal for a centerpiece Dman now or within a year or two. The forwards, as under-productive as they have been this season, outside the first line, really aren't in bad shape. Get rid of Vinny and Umby.. you get their cap.. improve that third line.. maybe trade Read for something... and start moving out the Dmen in favor of our prospects as they are ready. But one thing they will lack, is the Weber.. the Suter.. the Pronger... the Neidermeyer.. etc.. I truly think they need a centerpiece Dman to build around. Once you have one in place, and start adding young guys around him (Morin, Hagg, Sanheim, Alt, Ghost).

I know it's easier said than done, but I don't think a massive blowup is necessary, nor do I think Hextall needs to waste the best years of G's and Jake's best years in "patience"... Sure, it would still take 2 years minimum, but I think it's possible. They just need to stop doing crappy stuff and be smart. Hope Hextall can pull through!
- WarriorHockey21

Here is the problem: the trade market is dead. Almost all trades done in the NHL are contract related: team is in cap trouble, player is near UFA status, or the players makes more against the cap than he produces. Nobody is trading a top 3 defenseman on a reasonable contract in his prime years to the Flyers because one, few teams have a surplus of these players to move that it wouldn't hurt the team and two, it would cost said team way too much money to replace the production. Occasionally a lockerroom problem is available, like Phanuef was in Calgary, but do you really want that player on the Flyers?

So even if hockey trades are fairly common in the NHL, what do the Flyers really have to offer for an established top pair defenseman that another team would want? Brayden Schenn and Couturier are in their 4th season. Teams are no longer going to pay for potential for those two. So Schenn has the value of a run of the mill 2nd line 20 goal scorer? Couturier a 3rd line center. None of the flyers prospects are consider top notch can't miss guys so it's not like you could put them as the centerpiece of the deal, like LA did with B. Schenn. So now you are looking at Simmonds, Giroux and Voracek and I am not even sure Voracek could return a top 2 defenseman because of the premium of the position and they fact wingers are nowhere near as important as top pair defensemen. Not too mention the team trading a top pair defensemen better have a spare one on the 2nd pair to fill in for that player. Do you know any team in the league with 3 established top pair quality defensemen?

That's where, I personally, would be willing to part with one of our prospect Dmen in favor of a deal for a centerpiece Dman now or within a year or two. The forwards, as under-productive as they have been this season, outside the first line, really aren't in bad shape. Get rid of Vinny and Umby.. you get their cap.. improve that third line.. maybe trade Read for something... and start moving out the Dmen in favor of our prospects as they are ready. But one thing they will lack, is the Weber.. the Suter.. the Pronger... the Neidermeyer.. etc.. I truly think they need a centerpiece Dman to build around. Once you have one in place, and start adding young guys around him (Morin, Hagg, Sanheim, Alt, Ghost).

I know it's easier said than done, but I don't think a massive blowup is necessary, nor do I think Hextall needs to waste the best years of G's and Jake's best years in "patience"... Sure, it would still take 2 years minimum, but I think it's possible. They just need to stop doing crappy stuff and be smart. Hope Hextall can pull through!
- WarriorHockey21

Agreed, fully.

I'd like to see them add a legit, number one guy if at all possible. As much as the Flyers defense prospects look good, that will take time.

That said, there's not a Suter, Niedermayer or Pronger available via trade. Maybe a young guy can blossom into one of those types, but it's still going to be expensive and more of a roll of the dice.

Take a guy like Larsson. He's go the physical tools, but he's been so badly handled by the Devils, you have to wonder if he can get himself back on track.

Here is the problem: the trade market is dead. Almost all trades done in the NHL are contract related: team is in cap trouble, player is near UFA status, or the players makes more against the cap than he produces. Nobody is trading a top 3 defenseman on a reasonable contract in his prime years to the Flyers because one, few teams have a surplus of these players to move that it wouldn't hurt the team and two, it would cost said team way too much money to replace the production. Occasionally a lockerroom problem is available, like Phanuef was in Calgary, but do you really want that player on the Flyers?

So even if hockey trades are fairly common in the NHL, what do the Flyers really have to offer for an established top pair defenseman that another team would want? Brayden Schenn and Couturier are in their 4th season. Teams are no longer going to pay for potential for those two. So Schenn has the value of a run of the mill 2nd line 20 goal scorer? Couturier a 3rd line center. None of the flyers prospects are consider top notch can't miss guys so it's not like you could put them as the centerpiece of the deal, like LA did with B. Schenn. So now you are looking at Simmonds, Giroux and Voracek and I am not even sure Voracek could return a top 2 defenseman because of the premium of the position and they fact wingers are nowhere near as important as top pair defensemen. Not too mention the team trading a top pair defensemen better have a spare one on the 2nd pair to fill in for that player. Do you know any team in the league with 3 established top pair quality defensemen?
- psuhockey

I agree with your take on the trade market for top defenseman. I don't agree at all with your take on Couturier and Schenn. Both players are not at the apex of their development yet. Simply look at a player like Jake Voracek as an example. Both Schenn and Couturier have plenty of potential left in them.

yay! another mini streak coming up to prove they are not as bad as they have been, followed by another inexplicable fall into sub-mediocrity. another 2 points closer to the 15th pick and lost a possible trade asset in the game. hoooo-(frank)ing-ray
- hogweed

I agree with your take on the trade market for top defenseman. I don't agree at all with your take on Couturier and Schenn. Both players are not at the apex of their development yet. Simply look at a player like Jake Voracek as an example. Both Schenn and Couturier have plenty of potential left in them.
- MJL

this fan base needs to take on the persona of the GM, PATIENCE.

I agree with your take on the trade market for top defenseman. I don't agree at all with your take on Couturier and Schenn. Both players are not at the apex of their development yet. Simply look at a player like Jake Voracek as an example. Both Schenn and Couturier have plenty of potential left in them.
- MJL

Time is running out. Voracek was producing at a near point per game pace at the end of his 4th season and into the playoffs that year. He came back his 5th season in the league at the same rate. He is out producing that this year but you could see he was an impact player at the end of his 4th and definitely in his 5th. If they don't break out next season, they probably aren't ever going to. True there are always a handful of guys like Knuble, but for the overwhelming majority what you see is what you get by the 5th season in the NHL.

Simply look at a player like Jake Voracek as an example.
- MJL

I'd generally agree with good things come to those who wait, but for guys with some key deficiencies/limitations, it may not end up holding true. That's kind of why you can reasonably expect a Jake/JVR to put it all together down the road, versus a Sam Gagner/Luke Schenn that have skating/smarts issues to pull off the same.

(I'm totally not saying give up on 10/14, btw)

Time is running out. Voracek was producing at a near point per game pace at the end of his 4th season and into the playoffs that year. He came back his 5th season in the league at the same rate. He is out producing that this year but you could see he was an impact player at the end of his 4th and definitely in his 5th. If they don't break out next season, they probably aren't ever going to. True there are always a handful of guys like Knuble, but for the overwhelming majority what you see is what you get by the 5th season in the NHL.
- psuhockey

Time is not running out. Couturier is 22, and Schenn is 23. No where near that point.

Luke Schenn > Nik Grossmann
- Tomahawk

Being punched in the face > Being punched in the testicles

What's your point?

The keystone cops in Toronto really embarrassed themselves last night. How can they argue that They couldnt conclusively determine that Backstroms stick was high, thus admitting he deflected the puck.....while crediting Alzner with the goal. Makes no sense.

I'd generally agree with good things come to those who wait, but for guys with some key deficiencies/limitations, it may not end up holding true. That's kind of why you can reasonably expect a Jake/JVR to put it all together down the road, versus a Sam Gagner/Luke Schenn that have skating/smarts issues to pull off the same.
- Tomahawk

All that changes in that regards is what the upside actually is. One player may have the upside to become a top line player based on his skill set package. Another may only have the upside of a 2nd line caliber player. Even that isn't an exact science.

How dare they win

I'd generally agree with good things come to those who wait, but for guys with some key deficiencies/limitations, it may not end up holding true. That's kind of why you can reasonably expect a Jake/JVR to put it all together down the road, versus a Sam Gagner/Luke Schenn that have skating/smarts issues to pull off the same.

(I'm totally not saying give up on 10/14, btw)
- Tomahawk

I hate seeing JVR and Schenn mentioned together. That will always hurt. Homer getting ripped right off!

I would be looking to deal 24 and 5 for sure and of course anyone else on blueline

Time is not running out. Couturier is 22, and Schenn is 23. No where near that point.
- MJL

Magnus Pääjärvi

Time is not running out. Couturier is 22, and Schenn is 23. No where near that point.
- MJL

Age largely doesn't matter, its time in the NHL. People keep throwing Luke Schenns age as if he is somehow going to turn out more than he is because he is young. Well 3 out of the last 4 seasons he has played at a 3rd pair, occasional healthy scratch level. Yet he is only 25. Should the Flyers pencil him into the top pair in 3 years? Age matters regarding physical shape and conditioning. Do you think B. Schenn's problem is physical? Couturier could get stronger but do you think his skating will vastly improve? He has had 3 offseasons of NHL training already.

All that changes in that regards is what the upside actually is. One player may have the upside to become a top line player based on his skill set package. Another may only have the upside of a 2nd line caliber player. Even that isn't an exact science.
- MJL

Just based on Coots' skill set, do you feel he's ever going to lead the league in scoring one day? Or just the team?

Thanks Bill. Much better effort this game. Not perfect by any means, but at least they looked like they had life in them. I also noticed that the tough guys scare our guys; ie. Wilson, Eckblad, etc... It would be nice to see a 4th line that could play, and stand up for our players. However, I don't think that we will get that this season. But, I guess we had better take the good stuff while we get it. A shoot out win, and an OT win. Nice. Really, I'm not joking. I like it when we can win the close games. Will we see Carlo again, if Grossman is out? I am really interested in seeing him play a few games.

Giroux and Voracek are both on pace for 90+ point seasons, Couts and Raffl are on pace for 20 goals, Simmonds could eclipse 30 for the first time.

Just based on Coots' skill set, do you feel he's ever going to lead the league in scoring one day? Or just the team?
- Tomahawk

Neither.

Giroux and Voracek are both on pace for 90+ point seasons, Couts and Raffl are on pace for 20 goals, Simmonds could eclipse 30 for the first time.
- NickTheKid87

Trade them, trade them all!

How dare they win
- ob18

Allow me a visual representation...

Neither.
- MJL

Same.